Another Jim Brier hand - Page 3

MaxPower · #21 07-12-2005, 07:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think that many of us were trying to guess Jim's hand. We were commenting on the hand in a theoretical sense. I would certainly never have guessed that he had AK or Aq given your comment in your original post that you couldn't understand what the heck Jim was thinking. I also assumed based on your OP that you won the hand.

Anyway, my guess is JTs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, you are right. It wasn't a test to see if anyone could read his hand, but I was curious if anyone else would play KJo this way.

Everyone I told this hand to was very suprised as was I.

I don't understand why he 3-bet and UTG raise from a tight player with this hand.

Once he did that, he certainly should bet the turn as there is a decent chance I will fold any overcards. He is getting 4:1 on his bet. Maybe he figured I must have a pair and was going to call him down.

What's the pont of 3-betting here if you are going to play it weakly after the flop?

MaxPower · #22 07-12-2005, 07:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If I'm going past the flop with this hand, I'm going strong all the way. Otherwise, just check and fold.

But having played it the way you did, why didn't you bet the river? Granted a pro probably isn't folding AK (or he wouldn't have checked the turn), but why not give him the chance to make a mistake? He probably folds KQs, or maybe even ATs.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like your thinking.

flawless_victory · #23 07-12-2005, 07:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Hint: MHIG

[/ QUOTE ]i guess this sounds lame, but i figured it was pretty obvious YHWG given the tone of the post.
i was gonna say i guess he had 89s-QJs, but i think he made a mistake checking the turn. i think he made another miostake checking the river. i also think he made a mistake threebetting UTG+1 PF. i dont see any reason not to fold PF, bet turn, bet river if he was up to something PF. reread you original post. you give us nothing. i think whatever he had, he played it quite bad... i know what you had and i think you played it bad too.

1800GAMBLER · #24 07-12-2005, 07:46 PM

I think it's extremely unlikely Jim checks AK/pocket/the-legit-hands either on the turn or then on the river, that mistake is just too big for him to make. I think something like 98s tjs qjs or some random preflop-flop-semi-bluff hand that given up on the turn when he thought you were a player who would calll down with Ax here.

Turning Stone Pro · #25 07-12-2005, 08:00 PM

Is very weak. Giving a fellow a chance to see the river card for free when he could hit all sorts of crap to pair one of his cards, resulting in a river bet and JB would either have to muck or make a crying (hysterically) call.

If JB gets check-raised on the turn, obviously 6 or 7 clean outs, so long as hero doesnt have Donald.

TSP

andyfox · #26 07-12-2005, 08:15 PM

Good points. Max probably has a backdoor flush draw too.

skp · #27 07-12-2005, 08:32 PM

800,

Why is Jim's turn check weak if he had say AK?

The pot has 9 small bets in it. Let's say the turn is a 4 making the board 2224. Max raised UTG and called the flop bet. It's reasonable to assume therefore that Max is:

a. ahead and Jim has 7 outs
b. behind and Max has 3 outs
c. behind and Max has 6 outs.

I would put (c) as being the least likely possibility and (b) as the most likely posibility. (a) falls in between.

In this factual matrix, I don't see checking with AK to be a problem so long as (a) Jim will call any river bet or (b) value bet the river if max checks.

If my logic is wrong, please point it out.

ACPlayer · #28 07-12-2005, 08:45 PM

It is tough to bluff someone off any type of genuine EP raising hand on a flop of 222. I suspect that you would call down with AK or beter (or at least he thinks you will).

He did not know that all you have is KQ.

The more interesting question is why you did not bet the river. Of course he could have been boping you would bet so he could bluff raise and that raise would have likely got you to laydown AK thru say TT or JJ.

1800GAMBLER · #29 07-13-2005, 05:33 AM

'Why is Jim's turn check weak if he had say AK?'

It wouldn't be. But then not betting the river would be weak. I must have worded my post poorly. I can't see Jim making a mistake that big (not value betting the river) or playing a pocket pair like this either; both of those mistakes are too large for him, so he must have something fruity.

What are you thoughts on this preflop/flop combo with this hand? What are your thoughts if Jim was on the button and did it?

DanZ · #30 07-13-2005, 08:49 AM

this is just not the case. It will be fairly rare that he is drawing dead - it is a 7 handed game. Also, if he is outkicked, it only costs half the pot. He's getting 8.5-1 on a call, so 4 outs is almost enough, and he may have 6 or 7. He also may get 2 cards for one bet.