commerce 20-40NL

[AZK]

UTG really screws up the dynamic, I thought about the 3bet on the flop, but it sounds like UTG will literally call anything, if that's the case you pot stick yourself when you 3bet, UTG calls and now villain really can put you in a jam....

[riverboatking]

[ QUOTE ]
WTF does that 1/3 pot raise mean? Is he trying to freeze you or milk you?



[/ QUOTE ]

thats what makes this villian such a godamn pain in the ass to play against.
it could mean a number of things.
bascially i ruled out AA/KK as i don't think he wants to play a big multi-way pot w/those two.

at the time it seemed like he wanted to get control of the hand and not be faced with a really tough call on the turn if i fire again at what would be >4K pot.

i figured there was a good chance he had JJ-99 or AK/AJ of diamonds.
however there was also the possiblity that he had the underfull.

thats what is so great about his raise...he is only risking $2700 but in effect he's raising me 5-6K if i want to play the pot because he knows i can't just smooth call with the UTG calling station still involved.

i really hate good players fxxking with my bottom line.

ps. i guess a stop and go would have been a viable line, and i'm a little baffled as to why i never considered it.

[mgsimpleton]

[ QUOTE ]

i really hate good players fxxking with my bottom line.


[/ QUOTE ]

what, you mean like... playing poker? yeah it's a b*tch.

that being said - if he does have the underfull... if you were to use a stop and go he would very easily be able to smooth call the turn and get your stack in the middle given the ginormous size of the pot. so it seems like you have to decide whether it's worth it or not to continue, but i think this spot is just tough given the stacks, even a stop and go would likely commit you.

i really like coltrane's point - this is a great flop to mix it up by not firing out pot... i personally might consider a stop and go from the get go by checking the flop then leading the turn hard. especially since there's so little they actually could have hit, so stop and go is a nice way to control pot size if they have a monster, to get a bet on the flop from weaker pocket pairs, and to let them bluff the flop when they've completely missed.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

maybe i'm weak but i like checking these flops out of position esepcially when there is someone who will call a lot and someone who will make my life a living hell to act after me.

checking and seeing what develops helps avoid these kind of sticky situations and controls the size of the pot.

as you played it i'd call the raise and bet a blank turn.

[riverboatking]

i don't really like the idea of checking this flop given the fact that there are three other players in the pot, and this is one of the nicest looking flops for QQ OOP.

[riverboatking]

[ QUOTE ]
i don't really like the idea of checking this flop given the fact that there are three other players in the pot, and this is one of the nicest looking flops for QQ OOP.




[/ QUOTE ]

unless of course there is a very aggressive player in the pot whom i can count on to make a bet. which in this case there wasn't.

[lapoker17]

I'm checking that flop like never in this spot. Especially given who's in there with you.

[sawseech]

once bad player called pf everyone else is priced in

his raise seems to be telling you that it doesn't matter what you have

fold

if he showed down jacks here i don't sweat it

[Garland]

I'm now very curious about the results.

From Hung Law's POV, you probably wouldn't raise out of the blinds with anything that the flop would nail you hard with such as 22 or A3. Or maybe you would, who knows? Would Hung call with a hand like A3s?

It's possible he has an overpair like you, or he could have an underfull or a 3. The price of his raise is beautiful. You're at a loss of what to do with your hand and are seduced to play it passively, which probably makes you cringe knowing you prefer to be the aggressor. If you commit more by calling and leading a blank turn, Hung will simply dump all overpairs that QQ beats. But if he actually has quads, an underfull or a single 3, watch out! If you call the flop, check and he bets the turn, then what? Ack!

I don't think dumping this hand would be the worse thing in the world. I'm just now curious what you actually did and the results.

Garland

[cero_z]

What up rbk,

Interesting post as always. Couple of things:

--My thought is that he's got a fairly good hand and that he wants to know for sure what's going on with the bad player. He knows it puts you in a very tough spot, and if you get out, any middling pair is probably not too hard to play vs. a bad player OOP. Obviously, though, it could also be a boat, in which case he's thinking mostly about the bad player's money, since he's positive that raise will be called.

--I hate a stop and go, here, because who does this with a hand stronger than Aces up? Pretty much nobody, right? You really invite a tough player to take the big pot away from you with anything that beats the bad player if you bet 6-7K on the turn. A flop pot re-raise has similar problems, unless you think you can get credit from Villain for possibly having a 3--otherwise, it just makes it easy for him to get it in with the nut flush draw or some other hands, knowing you will fold a fair amount of the time.

I know I'm at least calling this raise most always--I'm inclined to check a blank on the turn and reevaluate. More to say but I have to catch a flight.