30-60 Live KK hand

Lawrence Ng · #1 08-27-2004, 04:15 AM

Weak semi-tight passive kid on a bit of a semi-tilt after losing 2 hands in a row open raises. I am to his left and have Red Kings and 3-bet. All fold back to him and he just calls with a big sigh. Kid knows I haven't played a hand in hours and am playing very tight.

Flop comes 10-10-6. Suits are no importance. He bets 30 very fast. I call.

Turn comes 2. He fires 60 again very fast. I fold.

All comments welcome.

ike · #2 08-27-2004, 04:22 AM

Either you know something you left out about either his playing style, how he behaves when tilted, or the meaning of the possible tells you mentioned, or your fold was kinda silly.

Michael Davis · #3 08-27-2004, 04:23 AM

I know you are trying to say he has a big hand, but can't that big hand be QQ? The other KK at worst? This fold seems insane. There must be more to it.

-Michael

nykenny · #4 08-27-2004, 04:39 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I know you are trying to say he has a big hand, but can't that big hand be QQ? The other KK at worst? This fold seems insane. There must be more to it.

-Michael

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree the fold is insane [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img], but the big hand here isn't QQ or JJ, it is JT or QT.

i believe the kid showed his JT or QT or KT [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

ike · #5 08-27-2004, 04:40 AM

Uh, aren't we talking about a semitight passive kid who openraised?

Lawrence Ng · #6 08-27-2004, 04:47 AM

Nothing about his playing style except I never saw him so gung ho on any flop before. It was basically his tell of shooting the money so fast into the pot that gave away to me that he had a 10 in his hand.

He's a reasonably good player and he knows I'm pretty tight aggressive and won't 3 bet without a pocket pair. The fact that he is semi-loose passive, then getting very aggressive on that particular flop was a big tell also.

Michael Davis · #7 08-27-2004, 04:54 AM

Yes, but he's also described as semi-tilt and having lost two hands in a row.

This fold is barely acceptable against the tightest nut peddler in the world, let alone a player of this description.

-Michael

ike · #8 08-27-2004, 04:59 AM

He'd have to be totally unaware that his opponents were trying to read him (the phrase "strictly retarded" was used recently) for shooting his money hard into the pot while making an unexpected flop bet to be a reliable indication of strength. From the type of player you describe I'd be more inclined to read this as weakness, in fact. Also, passive players don't usually have tens in their hands when they raise. On the other hand, you've now described him both as semi-tight passive and semi-loose passive. Your reasoning on this hand seems disjointed and self-conflicting, I think you overthought yourself and folded the winner.

Side note: You won't 3bet without a pocket pair? Sounds like a leak.

ike · #9 08-27-2004, 05:15 AM

My point was that he probably doesn't have a ten not that you should fold. Sorry for the confusion.

Lawrence Ng · #10 08-27-2004, 05:15 AM

QQ or JJ is a big possibility,

but let's just say I planned to play this out if I put him on a smaller pair. So I raise the turn and now he re-raises me back. Now I am pot committed. Do I still call the river if he bets and I don't hit my king?

So folding I lose $120, but I trust my instincts and am about 70 percent sure he has a 10.

If I play it out the way I do and lose, then it's $330 I lose.

but let's say the kid does only have QQ or JJ and I raise the turn with KK and he folds right then and there. I only stand to make $180 - but again, I am only 30 percent certain.

I don't quite remember all the math involved, but I'm pretty sure a fold here is right or marginally wrong at best.