Something different - KK

[jba]

well I'll admit that I will bet the flop here, and then make a tough decision on the turn if I still have the initiative. I don't really understand this line.

[Spicymoose]

[ QUOTE ]
hero's hand is awesome on the flop. you guys are weak

Board: Ah 4h 2h
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) / tie (%)

Hand 1: 72.8850 % [ 00.72 00.00 ] { KhKd }
Hand 2: 27.1150 % [ 00.27 00.00 ] { JJ-66, AKs-A7s, KQs-K9s, QJs-QTs, JTs, AKo-A9o, KQo-KTo, QJo }
Board: Ah 4h 2h
Dead:

Board: Ah 4h 2h
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) / tie (%)

Hand 1: 69.8976 % [ 00.66 00.04 ] { AsQs }
Hand 2: 30.1024 % [ 00.26 00.04 ] { JJ-66, AKs-A7s, KQs-K9s, QJs-QTs, JTs, AKo-A9o, KQo-KTo, QJo }

do lots of betting. lots of worse stuff will pay to see the river

[/ QUOTE ]

Hero's hand may be awesome, but a lot of the hands you mentioned fold the flop if Hero bets.

Many have said bet the flop here. I don't like it, and here's why. Maybe someone can show me why I'm wrong.

If you're way ahead:
1. Betting the flop will fold air.
2. Betting the flop could fold air with a medium/low heart.
3. Betting the flop could fold medium PPs and lower, maybe even up to JJ without hearts.

If you're way behind, well you save a small bet. I don't believe an Ace pulls a check raise on a flop this scary though, so if you're way behind, it's to AA, 44 or 22. 44 and 22 are unlikely due to the PFR, and more unlikely when the 4 falls. So that leaves AA, 3 ways. Then this line loses the least (aside from folding).

If your a little behind (Ax), you have at worst 10 outs.

So weighing everything together, I prefer to induce a turn bet that Villain might think is for value. The chance he folds to the flop bet is too high, compared to the chance he draws out on the turn to a hand Hero is beating now. Induce that bet for at least one street. I'd bet the turn if he checks again.

[ QUOTE ]
hero's hand is awesome on the flop. you guys are weak

[/ QUOTE ]

Hero's hand is very awesome here, IMO. So why does that mean we should bet the flop?

[bobhalford]

I personally don't check the flop in this spot. If villain indeed has an A, you can find out on the flop. If there were only 2 hearts on the flop, I would still bet, but would be less inclined to do so. With 11 cards to make the best hand if behind, in addition to the possibility we are ahead, I would want to be aggressive with this hand. If villain has QQ/JJ/TT with a heart, he is probably going to pay you off, so why not put chips into the pot on every street (with the exception of the river perhaps)?

[gehrig]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
hero's hand is awesome on the flop. you guys are weak

Board: Ah 4h 2h
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) / tie (%)

Hand 1: 72.8850 % [ 00.72 00.00 ] { KhKd }
Hand 2: 27.1150 % [ 00.27 00.00 ] { JJ-66, AKs-A7s, KQs-K9s, QJs-QTs, JTs, AKo-A9o, KQo-KTo, QJo }
Board: Ah 4h 2h
Dead:

Board: Ah 4h 2h
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) / tie (%)

Hand 1: 69.8976 % [ 00.66 00.04 ] { AsQs }
Hand 2: 30.1024 % [ 00.26 00.04 ] { JJ-66, AKs-A7s, KQs-K9s, QJs-QTs, JTs, AKo-A9o, KQo-KTo, QJo }

do lots of betting. lots of worse stuff will pay to see the river

[/ QUOTE ]

Hero's hand may be awesome, but a lot of the hands you mentioned fold the flop if Hero bets.

[/ QUOTE ]

hero is still making lots of money on bets that go in on the flop. he's 42% against an ace and everything else is pretty close to drawing dead, and theres lots of hands that will call drawing dead here

[SomethingClever]

I don't think you can call it WA/WB, because Hero is almost never WB here. He typically has 11 outs.

However, I don't mind checking behind on the flop, because it may convince MP that his weaker hands are good and cause him to bet them.

I see it as more of a FCA/SB situation (face-crushingly ahead/slightly behind).

[Alobar]

I dont have a problem with this.

tho im not sure if this is the right opponent to do it on, sounds like you are missing out on bets when he has a heart in his hand and will call down, but is still passive enough that he isnt going to bluff at you or "value bet" worse holdings.

[Spicymoose]

[ QUOTE ]
Hero's hand may be awesome, but a lot of the hands you mentioned fold the flop if Hero bets.

[/ QUOTE ]

hero is still making lots of money on bets that go in on the flop. he's 42% against an ace and everything else is pretty close to drawing dead, and theres lots of hands that will call drawing dead here

[/ QUOTE ]

He may be making lots of money on bets that go in the flop, but if villain folds hands that would of put money in the turn, we are giving up a decent amount of EV by betting the flop.

[ QUOTE ]
tho im not sure if this is the right opponent to do it on, sounds like you are missing out on bets when he has a heart in his hand and will call down, but is still passive enough that he isnt going to bluff at you or "value bet" worse holdings.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you were villain, you wouldn't *value-bet* QQ-55 here? With or without the heart? I would.