KK faces 2 on what i think is a semi-blank board

[bozlax]

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I really believe BB has a 7 here almost every time.

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What hand that contains a 7, other than 77, do you think he calls 2 preflop, even from the BB? I think it's much more likely he's playing mid-pockets or a flush draw, and that the hands you're behind (AA/7x/22) on a non-[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] turn are greatly outnumbered by the hands you're ahead of that would be played aggressively (even by a normally passive player, and from the OP we don't actually have a firm read on the Villan, just on the table) on the flop. So, when the turn betting goes check, bet, your action, I think you have to pop him one more time and, if 3-bet, call and call a river bet UI unless an ace falls.

[@bsolute_luck]

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Reads would help

[/ QUOTE ] i did provide reads. i couldn't get more specific than semi-Loose/passive simply because i wasn't at the table long enough. but i figured SB could be on a draw/a 2 or a small pocket and BB to have a pocket pair. i just couldn't see any hand cold calling a 3-bet with a 7 in it.

the problem i have is to call this flop, he's definitely betting back into me regardless on the turn so i should either cap the flop or fold i thought. i couldn't see such a suckout fastplaying like this, and maybe he was being goofy with something like QQ[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] or something.

sadly i didn't listen to myself and i called down and the schmuck showed A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

[Shillx]

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I'm going to war on a non-ace turn.

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I really believe BB has a 7 here almost every time. I'd say often enough to fold turn UI unless he's a maniac.

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This thread is really odd. This looks to be the most reasonable answer by far.

1) Is the Loose/Passive dude capping 99 or a [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] draw on the flop? - I say no

2) Will the L/P dude call out of the BB with 7x? - Uhhh yeah

We are screwed here unless the read is off or something. In an aggressive game where it is unlikely that he has a seven, yeah call down for sure. This doesn't look like the time and place for it though.

Brad

Edit to add that I'm playing only on a turn K or a turn 7. Since 7x is FAR more likely then 22 here, we can't give ourselves more then just over 2 outs. If you knew he had 22 then I guess we would have to see a river here.

[bozlax]

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the problem i have is to call this flop, he's definitely betting back into me regardless on the turn so i should either cap the flop or fold i thought.

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You don't have the opportunity to cap the flop. You 3-bet, BB capped. And, yeah, once he caps he should be betting into you regardless on the turn. And, results to the contrary notwithstanding, I think your reasoning is good (it helps that it matches mine [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]), there aren't a whole lot of hands containing a 7 that he should be calling 2 with preflop, but there are a lot of hands that you beat that he'd play aggressively on the flop.

I still say this hand could stand to throw in a raise on the turn, but I guess it doesn't really gain us much since a draw will call the raise and fold the river but a hand holding the 7 or 22 will punish us for it. Ok, fine, just call the turn and river UI, yeesh.

[bozlax]

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1) Is the Loose/Passive dude capping 99 or a [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] draw on the flop? - I say no

2) Will the L/P dude call out of the BB with 7x? - Uhhh yeah

We are screwed here unless the read is off or something.

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This is, in a nutshell, my problem with the "he has to have a 7" line of thinking...we don't really have a read at all.

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Edit to add that I'm playing only on a turn K or a turn 7

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How does a turned 7 help your hand?

[imported_The Vibesman]

I find it easier to imagine a loose player calling out of the BB w/ 67s, 78s, A7s, or some similar silly hand, than a passive player capping this flop against so much preflop and flop aggression with just a pair of tens or thereabouts. The flush draw is more likely, I guess. But it's hard for me to see a really passive player playing a flush draw so aggressively on a paired board. Maybe I'm reading too much into this passive thing.

:grunch: I would fold the flop, not raise. But since you raised, I would call the cap and pray for a K to fall. If the turn isn't a K, I would probably fold.

This might be weak, but BB will have a 7 most of the times.

[cfjr2]

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1) Is the Loose/Passive dude capping 99 or a [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] draw on the flop? - I say no

2) Will the L/P dude call out of the BB with 7x? - Uhhh yeah

We are screwed here unless the read is off or something. In an aggressive game where it is unlikely that he has a seven, yeah call down for sure. This doesn't look like the time and place for it though.
Brad

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of late this is my experience in 1/2 Full at party also. I have been getting killed by cold calls to 2 and sometimes 3 bets with any Ax and any 2 suited. I have been called by a BDFD to the river by T6s for the runner runner flush, etc.

I put BB on A7 here. 1/2 does not play like 5/10 but it does play like call down with anything - so SB probably has a 2 or a flush draw or some lame PP he thinks is still good.

[@bsolute_luck]

We are getting hung up on the LP read, which i regret putting in now only because i really don't think it was a strong enough read to put him deadon an uber-LP. i probably should have reworded as: i hadn't seen much aggression from him. to put him on a 7 on his initial flop raise is weak-sauce. i see players, even LP, play QQ-99 like this as well.

3-betting that flop is/should be standard i think. once he caps however, my question is: should we call? i guess the pot is big enough to hope for our 2-outer? because it was my thinking that once i called that flop, i was seeing the showdown unless SB wakes up on a [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

seriously, wouldn't you think a player would call my 3-bet and c/r the turn or donkbet again? seems more logical to me. what do you think of his play?

[jaxUp]

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once he caps however, my question is: should we call? i guess the pot is big enough to hope for our 2-outer? because it was my thinking that once i called that flop, i was seeing the showdown unless SB wakes up on a


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Getting 23:1 + implied, we have enough to call this flop cap even if he turns over 72. However, once he caps and leads the turn I think we need to realize he almost always has the 7 and it's time to go home.

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wouldn't you think a player would call my 3-bet and c/r the turn or donkbet again? seems more logical to me. what do you think of his play?

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I like his play. Once he has SB trapped and putting in money I'd cap this flop as well.