Turbo Texas Hold'em

[symphonic]

Is this program worth the rather large investment (that is, for software)? Those of you who have used it, did it significantly help your play?

[uuDevil]

Try doing a search on something like "TTH Mason" to find some threads where Mason Malmuth has posted his comments.

The general consensus seems to be that it is pretty weak in terms of how some of the profiles play and the play advice that it offers. I'm not an advanced player, but I have to agree with the latter criticism: in some situations, I can't for the life of me figure out how it could give the advice it does. Nevertheless, I found it worthwhile as a beginner to practice preflop hand selection, reading the board, etc.

The simulation capabilities are useful in principle but given some of the comments here the results would be questionable. For instance, I used it to see how Phil Hellmuth's seemingly nutty limit play advice would work against a low limit lineup. Answer: He would win, but not much. Somehow I doubt that result would get him off the hook around here, though [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

I don't use it much now unless I'm really bored. You may want to look at other software options like Poki's Poker Academy, which sounds interesting. Hope that helps.

[2DAXTRM (Jeff)]

I think the software is excellent when it comes to three things:
1)teaching you opening hand standards, 2) calculating pot odds, and 3) calculating normal holdem odds (such as percentage of improving 4 to a flush by the river).

I think its advice in general is pretty good too, but not perfect. To me, using it for opening hand selection practice makes it valuable enough. The abilities to zip to the next hand when you fold make it the same as using flash cards. It has a nice option where if you right click on the mouse it'll tell you the best play (and this is good preflop). So I would come up with the best play myself, then right click to hear what they have to say, before making it. Another great option is to have it hands you will be able to call with, or deal you only raising hands. I can say that I agree with about 90% of it's post-flop recommendations in ring games. But beware, in shorthanded games the advice is pretty bad.
Another feature that I use regularly is the simulations. You can 'stack the deck', and basically have it deal out a million hands from start to finish within a matter of seconds. Whenever I get a bad beat in a No Limit game, I find it psychologically easing to plug the bad beat into Turbo Texas Holdem and find out just how far ahead I was. I am now able to memorize many headsup matchups just because I've played around with this option so much.
Overall, I think this program will drill opening hand standards into you very fast, it will help you compute pot odds faster, and it will teach you percentages in general (such as improving your two pair to a full house by the river, or by the turn). This program is also incredibly user friendly.
If I had one week to turn a beginner into the best possible limit player possible, I would recommend two things:
Turbo Texas Holdem, and Ciaffone and Brier's Middle Limit Holdem (required reading for any limit holdem student).

[colgin]

While I think the criticisms of TTH are valid (and you can find those criticisms detailed by running some searches on this site), I found it to be a useful tool for me when I was starting out. Playing against Turbo gave me the confidence to start playing for real money whereas playing at the play tables did not. However, I do not use the program that much anymore as I would prefer to spend my limited poker time playing in actual games than playing against the software. Still, I credit it with helping me to become a winning (low limit) player and it was worth the $90 to me.

[krazyace5]

IMO, your money would be better spent on the Poker Tracker software, and playing some low limit online games for practice, also read all the great books. I think they have games as low as .01-.02 cents online.

[ericd]

My absolute 2 favorite learning tools. I use both most every day. I agree with all that Jeff said and am only going to add a couple of more.

What I use TTH primarily now for is to try out being more aggressive. I am now getting to the point that even on my worst days I steal enough blinds or buy enough small pots to sometimes turn a losing session into one that is +or_ 1bb. It also reminds me how many lousy starting hands I'm dealt and should expect to be dealt.

I have been reading Middle Limit Holdem Poker most days (30 to 60 minutes on the train) since about July 1. The biggest thing I initially gained is (and am constantly reminded) is to realistically evaulate where I stand after the flop. The 2 biggest things they stress is 1) number of people remaining 2) what they can realistically have ( drawing to or a made hand). I don't know how many times I've seen people draw to a straight when others are drawing to a flush.

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi ericd:

[ QUOTE ]
don't know how many times I've seen people draw to a straight when others are drawing to a flush.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you have eight cards to hit your straight, even though two of those cards will likely make someone else a flush, you should make that call and draw almost everytime. Do you see why?

Best wishes,
Mason

[clovenhoof]

Hi Mason,

Here's my guess(es):

1. "Likely" is less than 100%
2. You still have the six outs that let you bet
3. You have four of five outs (pairing up non-flush) that might win if you both miss and check down
4. Life is boring if you just keep folding

I have a hunch that none of these is what you had in mind....

'hoof

[ericd]

Mason,

Yes, I agree in most cases. However, what I was trying to convey (and not too clearly) is that many people don't consider (at least when they are first playing and for that matter some never learn) is that 2 of their outs are iffy. It's similar to holding KK and the flop is QJx. Many people don't consider that their 3rd K very often makes someone else straight.

I guess what I am trying to say is that when I began I only looked at how good/bad my hand was and did not evaluate what the other guy was trying to do. Now, in addition, some of the other things I take into account are the flop, the number of players, the betting and the types of players.

Thanks,

Eric

[ericd]

I tried to edit the prior one but I was too late.

I hope it doesn't seem like I'm advocating being a "wimp". It's just there are times to be aggressive and other times to slow down. If I had 3Ks heads up I would pay off the possible straight. But, if I'm caught in a raising contest between a couple of others I'd probably muck the hand.

Finally, I forgot to mention pot odds as a consideration. I just do them naturally and forget that many people struggle with them.