Hands that make you feel smart afterwards...

SparkyDog · #1 10-23-2005, 04:35 PM

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 4 handed) converter

Villian is too loose, and is usually aggressive in the right spots on paper, but gets into too many spots due to his looseness. Tries to read hands, and probably thinks pretty straightforwardly and logically. I'm pretty sure he only operates on the first level though.

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero raises, Button 3-bets, 2 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (7.40 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.70 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

River: (6.70 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero raises...

I didn't decide to C/R until he bet, if that makes any difference to you all.

Final Pot: 9.70 BB

SparkyDog · #2 10-24-2005, 03:11 PM

I'm bumping this. I think this hand's interesting enough at least have a nit say it won't work 1/3.5 times.

So I think the flop call is easy and turn call is closer, but with 6 pure outs and 8 likely ones, it's close enough to not really matter. I decided to check-raise the river after he bet it, simply because it doesn't really jive with the rest of the action. What's worth betting on this river for the Villian? Seems like his bet here represents either a hand looking for a fold (but not necessarily worse than mine) or an overpair that's not cutting loose, and there's not nearly as many of those.

jba · #3 10-24-2005, 03:19 PM

what are you trying to represent? the problem with this bluff is that it doesn't really look like that strong of a hand, as you yourself said villain is going to check through the turn a ton here so why would you check/raise for value?

SparkyDog · #4 10-24-2005, 03:31 PM

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what are you trying to represent? the problem with this bluff is that it doesn't really look like that strong of a hand, as you yourself said villain is going to check through the turn a ton here so why would you check/raise for value?

[/ QUOTE ]

Eh?

jba · #5 10-24-2005, 03:42 PM

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what are you trying to represent? the problem with this bluff is that it doesn't really look like that strong of a hand, as you yourself said villain is going to check through the turn a ton here so why would you check/raise for value?

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Eh?

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sorry, I obviously meant check through the river.

blackize · #6 10-24-2005, 03:45 PM

It won't work 1/3.5 times.

Why not just fold the turn? The pot is 4BB with a 5th from villain's bet. You have 6 outs to a straight, and 4 outs to pairs that may or may not be good. I would discount your pair outs to say, 2 outs perhaps? Which gives you 8 total outs and getting 5 to 1 on your money it is a fold.

krishanleong · #7 10-24-2005, 03:46 PM

If you want to make a play, make it on the flop/turn.

Krishan

GetThere1Time · #8 10-24-2005, 03:49 PM

I guess I'm a nit then.

[ QUOTE ]
Villian is too loose, and is usually aggressive in the right spots on paper, but gets into too many spots due to his looseness. Tries to read hands, and probably thinks pretty straightforwardly and logically. I'm pretty sure he only operates on the first level though.

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The first part of this statement is viable, but I think whether he "tries to read hands and thinks straightforward and logically", or whether he "plays on the first level" or not are things you really can't determine by playing one session of internet poker with someone. If you've played tons with the villian or know the villian in real life maybe I could by it but it sounds to me like you're just justifying your river play ahead of time.

[ QUOTE ]

I'm bumping this. I think this hand's interesting enough at least have a nit say it won't work 1/3.5 times.

So I think the flop call is easy and turn call is closer, but with 6 pure outs and 8 likely ones, it's close enough to not really matter.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can maybe dig the flop call and the turn call since this guy is pretty loose who knows he might have. 6-8ish outs after the discount seems reasonable.

[ QUOTE ]
I decided to check-raise the river after he bet it, simply because it doesn't really jive with the rest of the action. What's worth betting on this river for the Villian? Seems like his bet here represents either a hand looking for a fold (but not necessarily worse than mine) or an overpair that's not cutting loose, and there's not nearly as many of those.[/

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I don't understand how you don't think it "jives" with the rest of the action. The villian has a hand he likes. He's a LAG. Rawrawrawrawrbettttt!. Here's why this is bad:

You said yourself the villian is loose so he's going to be paying off with a large range of hands here. This is even more reinforced by him betting the river. He's going to showdown. If a LAG is betting the river, whether it be with ace-high or whatever, and he gets check-raised you're probably getting looked up because the board's paired and the action's goofy. Speaking of the action, what hand are you trying to represent? A slowplayed flush/set? The 3 peels off. It doesn't take a whole lot of insight to figure out that you probably don't have one.

In short, save this kind of stuff for tighter players at higher limits on scarier rivers. Rivers that apply in a I think he thinks I have x based on the way the hand progressed situation.

blackize · #9 10-24-2005, 03:50 PM

Krishan makes a good point. Very few players will lay anything down for 1 bet on the river at least not in a pot this size.

#10 10-24-2005, 03:53 PM

Exactly what hand are you trying to represent here? I guess you won the hand, but you played it poorly. If you're trying to fold overcards then bet or checkraise the turn.