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  #1  
Old 09-17-2005, 04:04 PM
Alex/Mugaaz Alex/Mugaaz is offline
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Default Slightly inept preflop questions I SHOULD know the answers too.

Would these pot odds be enough to be EV neutral(or close enough) in the following situations? Factoring in both opponents typical hand ranges and your positional advantage/disadvantage? (SB/BB is 2/1 structure)

1: 5To in BB vs UTG raise and 8 callers.
2: 35o in BB vs MP1 raise and 3 callers.
3: J7o in SB vs UTG limper, MP1 raise, and 2 callers.
4: Q3o in SB vs UTG+2 limper and 3 callers.
5: 58s on the button vs UTG limp, UTG1 raise, and 3 callers.
6: 2Ts in the CO vs UTG+2 limp, and 3 callers.
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  #2  
Old 09-17-2005, 04:08 PM
Dagger78 Dagger78 is offline
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Default Re: Slightly inept preflop questions I SHOULD know the answers too.

Fold all of these hands IMHO. I know your pot odds are great but you'll be getting reverese implied odds since you're going to hit alot of weak hands in big fields and it will be tough to get paid off, but very easy to pay off with the worst hand.
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  #3  
Old 09-17-2005, 04:13 PM
Alex/Mugaaz Alex/Mugaaz is offline
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Default Re: Slightly inept preflop questions I SHOULD know the answers too.

I would say this is my natural tendency too, but I have a feeling it is incorrect. I have to say I feel somewhere between moderately and totally inept playing "trash hands" post flop, and this is probably something I should work on improving on, hence this post.
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  #4  
Old 09-17-2005, 04:15 PM
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Default Re: Slightly inept preflop questions I SHOULD know the answers too.

I'd fold them all bar the first one. You're getting 19-1: surely you can call with nearly anything?
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Old 09-17-2005, 04:16 PM
Dagger78 Dagger78 is offline
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Default Re: Slightly inept preflop questions I SHOULD know the answers too.

If played prefectly postflop, some of these hand may be break-even, but since all the these hands are going to put us into tough, marginal decisions against alot of opponents, it's going to be very easy to make the wrong move.
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  #6  
Old 09-17-2005, 04:19 PM
Dagger78 Dagger78 is offline
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Default Re: Slightly inept preflop questions I SHOULD know the answers too.

You're only safe here if you hit 2pair or trips on the flop, and even then you're going to lose a bunch of those against 9 players. I still think this hand is much too week to play, T7 might be playable there, but T5 is just 2 random cards.
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  #7  
Old 09-17-2005, 04:21 PM
TheHammer24 TheHammer24 is offline
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Default Re: Slightly inept preflop questions I SHOULD know the answers too.

EASY folds
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  #8  
Old 09-17-2005, 04:26 PM
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Default Re: Slightly inept preflop questions I SHOULD know the answers too.

I've been working on loosening up my PF play, but I'd still fold all of these and not think twice about it. I tend not to do more than rudimentary math, but I believe the math will bear it out.

Only close one is the Q3o - you're getting 11 to 1 on a call, but you really need to flop two pair or better to even stay in after the flop, so even those odds may not be good enough.

Edit: the first hand may be getting great odds, but that's tempered by the UTG raise AND the fact that everyone else thought they had good enough hands to cold-call. You're essentially buying a lottery ticket there against a minefield of aces, kings, connectors and suited cards.
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Old 09-17-2005, 04:34 PM
Alex/Mugaaz Alex/Mugaaz is offline
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Default Re: Slightly inept preflop questions I SHOULD know the answers too.

I'm really looking for some math proofs or detailed analysis of the following situations. Everyone in this forum has the gut instinct/opinion to fold... I knew that before I posted this. If someone were to magically drop 20bb into each of these pots these woulds all be easy calls. At what point exactly do these swing from fold to call? If all of these are "easy folds" then how many SB would need to be (magically) added to the pot to make them an EV neutral call?
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  #10  
Old 09-17-2005, 04:35 PM
Harv72b Harv72b is offline
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Default Re: Slightly inept preflop questions I SHOULD know the answers too.

1) You're getting 19:1 pot odds. Folding anything here would be a mistake.

2) Fold, unless all 4 opponents are godawful poker players.

3) Fold. Might be tempting if it were suited, but I'd still fold that unless, again, all of my opponents were truly terrible postflop.

4) Fold. You're probably dominated.

5) Fold. You have no top pair strength, limited straight potential, and even your flush draw ain't so hot. 87s would be closer given the 3 coldcallers + limper & blinds.

6) Fold. If I were feeling frisky I might call on the button with T2s, but it's just not a strong enough hand to really play here.
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