Pocket 7's out of position

Slappz · #1 04-11-2005, 08:27 PM

First orbit, I felt a ton of weakness in MP2's betting, but i've also run into a lot of people who weak bet their overpairs on the flop to generate some action heads up so I didnt want to play a big pot.

Party Poker Pot-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 10 handed) converter

SB ($341)
BB ($547.95)
UTG ($449.2)
Hero ($591)
UTG+2 ($488)
MP1 ($194.45)
MP2 ($457.15)
MP3 ($465.25)
CO ($228.65)
Button ($332.85)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $3.
1 fold, Hero calls $6, 2 folds, MP2 raises to $12, 5 folds, Hero calls $6.

Flop: ($33) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets $10, Hero calls $10.

Turn: ($53) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets $20, Hero calls $20.

River: ($93) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $90

dark_avenger · #2 04-11-2005, 09:46 PM

on the turn i think you're definately beat and should fold.

on the river i think that this bet is a mistake because i don't think you'll get overpairs/ aj/ kj/ to fold, unless you know that your opponent is weak, and he's definately not folding if he has a ten.

usually with mid-pockets i fold if i don't flop a set or if the flop doesn't come all undercards.

Apathy · #3 04-11-2005, 11:04 PM

Looks ok to me, I think you should bet slightly less on the river.

I assume you wouldnt bet unless the spade or a 7 hit. Correct?

I usually only try this stuff on peope I have labelled as laydown "artists".

Slappz · #4 04-11-2005, 11:37 PM

I had the guy on missed overcards maybe AQ, KQ after that weak flop bet, then the turn bet looked exactly like KQ with the straight draw and overcards. I guess i could have checked down that river, but I didnt want him taking another stab at me, and with such weak bets i found it very hard to fold my 77 on any of the streets.

FeelGoodAboutHood · #5 04-11-2005, 11:50 PM

If you have him read for KQ, you checking and him taking another stab at you is exactly what you want. That's the best thing that could happen. The second best thing is that he checks behind, which he probably does with whatever you beat and with plenty of other hands that you don't.

I guess my problem with the hand is that I don't really understand why you have him read for overcards the entire way and give him a chance to fold them on the river.

beta1607 · #6 04-11-2005, 11:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I guess i could have checked down that river, but I didnt want him taking another stab at me

[/ QUOTE ]

This seems a little backwards to me. You think that you are ahead here but what hand is going to call that river bet that you are ahead of? I think check-calling the river is a better option so that you can snap off the KQ/ AK bluff.

THATWACOKID · #7 04-12-2005, 12:45 AM

After the weak flop bet I would probably raise there. If he doesn't have anything then he will fold. If he does then he will either call or raise and you are done with the hand unless you improve. If you have him for over cards then he has a good chance at hitting one. I think this will also be cheaper than check-calling the turn most of the time (not in this case). Does anyone else think like me on this one?

WACO

PeteGI · #8 04-12-2005, 01:32 AM

I think your position here is key. I will have to disagree with you here WACO, because if he has him pegged on overcards he will be calling a bet made on that flop with a wide range of hands/draws, and so you won't get much information if he flat calls. Also if you check-raise here(flop) he will most likely call unless he has a very weak hand, but again putting him on overs such as KQ, I am not sure that he would fold two over's and an open-ended straight draw. Smooth calling the flop is the right move. When a blank came out you should have bet strong to see if he was on the draw and get him out. If he calls then you are done. He could very well be sitting on Ad Jd here, and not be worried about the draw.

NLfool · #9 04-12-2005, 02:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I think your position here is key. I will have to disagree with you here WACO, because if he has him pegged on overcards he will be calling a bet made on that flop with a wide range of hands/draws, and so you won't get much information if he flat calls. Also if you check-raise here(flop) he will most likely call unless he has a very weak hand, but again putting him on overs such as KQ, I am not sure that he would fold two over's and an open-ended straight draw. Smooth calling the flop is the right move. When a blank came out you should have bet strong to see if he was on the draw and get him out. If he calls then you are done. He could very well be sitting on Ad Jd here, and not be worried about the draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really prefer this line. He knows what he's talking about. BTW is this Pete Giordano cuz you play goot minus of course that AQ laydown [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

THATWACOKID · #10 04-12-2005, 10:05 AM

Yea I see what you are saying here pete. When I see these weak types of bets I usually think they are p-o bluffs, but this is a very draw heavy board and betting a small amount in relation to the pot is pretty common with draws. What if the flop was not suited and the ten was an 8. How would a c-r be there? I tend to check-raise a little too much so I'm probably way off here ... lol

WACO