QQ in a big pot, how's my line

#1 12-21-2005, 02:34 AM

Table is beautiful and fishy. Not much raising going on PF besides myself and another tag. Lots of cold callers and chasers.

SB is 36/0/4.0. He likes to play face-x, and bets with any piece of the board. Never saw him raise pre-flop but he loves to go at it post-flop. He's not yet won a hand at the table, and he may be a bit tilted because of it, as he started getting a bit more aggro with even crappier hands after his A4 and K7 got beat by better kickers. This is only the second hand I've played at this table after 2 or so orbits. Previous hand to this was the first hand I played. I had JJ and raised him on the flop when he bet out from the BB, and he folded, so I think that may have affected him as well.

PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
Hero raises, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 3 folds, SB calls, 1 fold.

Flop: (11 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, SB 3-bets, Hero caps, MP1 calls, SB calls.

I figure SB for top or middle pair here as I don't think he'd cold-call with T7. Maybe AT-JT, or a pocket pair, with his VPIP he has a pretty big calling range, and I do think he is tilted and probably thinks I'm trying to push him around. Only thing that could beat me is a set, AA, or KK. SB could have any of those, but I didn't think so at this time.

Turn: (11.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, MP1 calls, SB 3-bets, Hero calls, MP1 calls.

Nothing here changes things for SB unless he had 99, but I'm not sure even a tilted LAG would 3-bet the flop with 99. I'm starting to think set here so I slow down after the 3-bet, but a big part of me wanted to cap here as well. Would that just be spewage? Pots too big at this point to even consider folding, and I'm still not convinced I'm beat, though I am getting concerned. I was also getting more concerned about MP1 and his draw. I figured he was on the straight draw for sure.

River: (20.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, MP1 folds.

One of the worst possible cards I could see. All I can do is call at this point. Not sure what MP1 was drawing to, but I was glad to see him fold [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Final Pot: 22.50 BB

So how's my line? Especially the turn. Should I have done what I did, just called, or capped the turn? Anyone play this differently?

#2 12-21-2005, 02:56 AM

I call down from the turn.

Sykes · #3 12-21-2005, 04:04 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I call down from the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Usually I'd call down from the turn also, but knowing our villian is a 4.0 (way too high), he could easily have AT here, so I like the raise. After the 3-bet, slow down.

NH all the way though.

I think you won, and wanted to know if you could extract more off him.

easypete · #4 12-21-2005, 07:12 AM

This is pretty much how I'd play it. I don't think you can slow down until the turn 3-bet (that's when things get real).

If his AF is a little lower, then you can slow down to his turn bet. There are so many variables on this.

First of all... I don't even use total AF any more. All my AF's for my player reads are broken into the streets. If he's 6.0 AFF and 1.0 AFT, then I would have slowed down to the turn bet, since you put in the last action on the flop. If he's 1.0 AFF, 6.0 AFT, then I would have slowed down on the flop.

Another thing to consider is that you're dragging another player around with you on the turn. This player (MP1) CC's 2 on the turn after CC'ing 2 on flop (and calling 2 more after the cap). I would put him on 2 clubs or a hand like 98. I don't think the 9 helped him with a straight, but that's also kinda hard to tell, since there's no read for him. Assuming typical player, I would say you have a decent chance of being safe on that card, especially after the CC on the turn.

The main thing to consider when dragging another player around like this on the turn, is how good are you vs SB? If you believe that you are 50/50 here, on the turn due to his past behaviour, then you may consider just capping the turn, since you are getting 2:1 to any aggressive action with MP1's contributions. Factoring in the possible holdings of MP1 and SB, you may be much better than 2:1 here.

Again... you're line was best. Consider capping turn if you understand better your opponent (street aggro factors help here) and consider MP1 and his stats as well.

#5 12-21-2005, 10:20 AM

Grunch:

I like your pf play. On the flop, I think I might only call the re-raise. AA, KK, or a set? - maybe. On the turn, I think you have to raise to hurt the MP1's continued draw.

Riv - crying call. I fear a set here, but cannot fold as we only need to be right 5% of the time

#6 12-21-2005, 10:29 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Grunch:

I like your pf play. On the flop, I think I might only call the re-raise. AA, KK, or a set? - maybe. On the turn, I think you have to raise to hurt the MP1's continued draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't really see a reason to put villain on AA or KK here. At these levels people love to stare themself blind on their cards and don't put in factors like aggressiveness etc. Not that I would cold call with AA preflop ever but you get my point. In some cases people at these low limits cold call tho thinking their AA or KK is unbeateable but it happens very seldom. He can have a set yes but AA or KK? Nah. If he slowplayed AA or KK which I highly doubt then I would thank him since I will get his money next time he does that.

For the hand... Nice slowdown on turn. He likes his hand alot and isn't afraid of letting you know that. J8? Who knows. My biggest fear is that he already have a straight or as most likely, a set (77,22). I call the river too since the pot is huge and I only have to be ahead 4,6% of the time and there is a good oppurtunity I get to see AT and KT here. More than 4,6%.