"Official" ESPN Coverage of WSOP Main Event: 11/1

[AEKDBet]

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Calling Greg's all-in with AJo (and her amazing logic to go with) makes her a donk.

I equate this to the 25-handicapper that reads the break of the 10 foot putt five different ways while people are waiting to hit their approach shots. Then, the guy 3-putts.

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[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Noo Yawk]

To come on these boards and say what you did shows alot of guts and class. It's laughable when to read the attacks on beginning players, when most of the attacks are done by posters who just started understanding the game in the past 2 years or so. Stick around these boards. You'll learn a ton, and get there fast.

Kudo's to Dynasty for putting some perspective into this thread.

[SavageMiser]

I don't have much of an issue with the time TW took to make the decisions (or non-decisions). With the TV editing it's hard to tell what exactly went on, but I think I would have gotten a little upset of someone considered my all-in bet until her hand was declared dead and then asked to see my hand! I thought the Sheik was being a putz, but that is some pretty good provocation.

But whatever ... lord knows what I'd do with so much money on the line.

[Jbrochu]

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If I remember correctly, they were supposed to be on a dinner break at that time, but they shortened the break to something like 20 minutes. Black was trying to encourage the table to slow down but no one wanted to do that, especially as Wang was one of the very short stacks.


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That is the way I remember it, too. Basically, instead of supporting Black, the rest of the table gave him a bunch of sh!t as he took his time with his decisions. I recall reading it got pretty ugly at the table.


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If I was at that table and had a medium or short stack, I would have been giving Black a hard time also.

It's too bad that the guy was misinformed about the length of the break, and if there really was confusion due to the tournament director I would have no objection to stopping the clock at all tables and waiting. However, since the tournament director made a decision to play on I would be pissed off if I was seeing half the hands as players at other tables just because somebody else screwed up.

[Zetack]

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i hate this lady

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Jeez. There's a lot of vitrol in this thread (and others). The personal attacks are unpleasant, to say the least; but it's a public forum so there isn't much in it for me to cry foul and ask people to refrain from that sort of behaviour. But I would note that I have already responded to certain of the criticisms of my play, particularly how long I took to make some decisions. See, my previous post, for example.

Without a doubt, when I got on the t.v. table, I made some pretty questionable plays. But, in my defense, when I got on the t.v. table, I was a bit nervous (#1, it was the t.v. table and #2, I instantly recognized a couple of the players there, who I knew would try to run me off the table and #3... well it was the t.v. table). So I tried to make a few moves to show that I wouldn't be pushed around and it completely backfired. Oh well. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] If I could also add, during most of tournament, I otherwise played a fairly tight and aggressive game and, save my time on the t.v. table and three key hands involving AQ, I rarely entered and stayed in a pot where I was behind in the hand unless my intention was to bluff. What has been written here notwithstanding [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img], but for the t.v. table disasters and A/Q hands (and near the end where I was shortstacked), I rarely got involved in pots where I did not have an edge. (The WSOP hasn't been televised here yet; so I'm not sure which of the many hands I was involved with have been selected for inclusion in the ESPN coverage.) For example, someone has written:



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Tiffany, thanks for coming on to defend yourself.

I think the vitriol comes mainly from your extreme delay of the play. You imply that this is something that you did only very infrequently, and indeed, as a percentage of the hands you played it was probably very small. Nevertheless, it doesn't take very many repititions to get very old, very fast. And from everything I read on Cardplayer and other sources at the time, it didn't sound like your delay of the play was simply a couple of isolated incidents, but an ongoing pattern.

The other players, you see, are there to play. Not playing sucks and is boring. Plus, because they need to accumulate chips, and they have to see some hands to do so, if you cause several long delays you accutually put your opponents at a disadvantage relative to the rest of the field.

If you took ten minutes to act six times, then your opponents have lost out on an hour of play versus the rest of the field. If you spaced these out so that it was a different set of players at your table each time, the effect on any one player wouldn't be too bad, but if not, the cumulative effect of your delays hurts your opponents. And in any case it marks you as an aggravating and annoying player to have at one's table. And from what I've read it sounds like you had both delays longer than 10 minutes, and more than, say, six delays.

Further aggravating people is that some of your delays were over pretty easy decisions. Admittedly, they may not have seemed easy to someone less experienced such as yourself, but surely after 2,3,4 minutes there was nothing left for you to figure out about the hand and at that point it was simply about making a decision. Taking another ten minutes just to make up your mind what to do seems rather extreme.

So there's the nutshell. Most of us here here think this kind of repeated delay is simply unjustifed even given your inexperience and some find it infuriating.

I'm not infuriated simply reading about it, but if I had been at your table during these incidents, I would have been seriously annoyed.

In any case, I hope your endeavor to study the game and improve goes well.

--Zetack

Thanks for the nutshell, Zetack. I wholeheartedly take your point. I’ve explained why it took me some time to make decisions with respect to certain key hands during the WSOP. I can only say, again, that I took the time that was necessary for me to make the decision at hand. I appreciate your explanation and I understand that you and others think I took too much time. I also appreciate that more experienced players would likely have been able to make decisions on these hands much more quickly than I did ( I would make them more quickly, given what I know today). And finally, I appreciate that persistent delays from one or more players can be detrimental to tournament play generally. So I have been working on this.

Just to add, I can honestly say that at the time, it sure didn’t seem like I was taking some time that many more times than other players. There were, indeed, other players at my tables who had time called on them several times. And I too, found it boring sitting there waiting on people to make a decision. But I also understood that I was not in their shoes making their (easy? difficult?) decisions (I think, given my level of experience, I had more empathy than some others; but I nevertheless called the clock on other players a couple of times myself when I thought it was necessary/worthwhile). So, I just sat there and waited. Anyway, the funny thing is, no one, not one player, voiced any anger to me or in any way said to me directly that they found the time I took “infuriating”. (Query how/if my play would have changed had someone done so.) Any supposed anger at my play has come from message boards, after the fact. The one guy who hinted at being really upset was Shawn, and given what was reported as his cards during the hand in question (AA?), I’m sure he would not have minded waiting a tad bit longer if I had ultimately decided to call him. I thought Shawn was being a bit unpleasant at the t.v. table at the time [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]; but he seemed like a pretty nice guy away from the table after that hand and during the next day of play. In fact, I had a great experience with nearly everyone I played with. No annoyed/angry vibes.

Thanks again.

Best,
Tiffany

Tiffany,

1) How do you feel that ESPN showed you saying that Sheik didn't have pocket aces three or four times even though that is exactly what he had,

2) Did you know that King Jack is an underdog to just about every raising hand, not just pocket aces,

3) Did you know that the Bill Fillmaff is King Jack NOT suited, or is that what you were trying to remember?

Too much time diverted from work, but BBB, please see my responses below :

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1) How do you feel that ESPN showed you saying that Sheik didn't have pocket aces three or four times even though that is exactly what he had,

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I feel completely devastated. I mean, I just can't believe I misread him to that degree. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] Actually, I am very glad that I did not call. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Wait... No. Let me rethink that. If I am truly as luckly as some of the posters here make out, three kings would have hit and I would have doubled up... I retract my previous statement. I now wish that I called. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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Tiffany,
2) Did you know that King Jack is an underdog to just about every raising hand, not just pocket aces,


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Did I know? Yes. But I thought he was stealing. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

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3) Did you know that the Bill Fillmaff is King Jack NOT suited, or is that what you were trying to remember?

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Who?

Best,
Tiffany

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3) Did you know that the Bill Fillmaff is King Jack NOT suited, or is that what you were trying to remember?

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Who?

Best,
Tiffany

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ROFLMAO.

[sthief09]

I respect your excellent usage of emoticons