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  #1  
Old 08-30-2005, 12:10 PM
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Default A very strange pre-flop hand

This was a tricky hand from a 5+1 Party Tournament.

First, a little history:

***** Hand History for Game 2623388808 *****
50/100 Tourney Texas Hold'em Game Table (NL) (Tournament 15294995) - Tue Aug 30 11:38:06 EDT 2005
Table Multi-Table(439664) Table 17 (Real Money) -- Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: tckrush (500)
Seat 2: Temperenzlar (3425)
Seat 3: ivegotaces (1245)
Seat 4: HERO (7590)
Seat 6: gregsgreg (545)
Seat 7: sattuof (3025)
Seat 8: nitrovette (2060)
Seat 9: Macktry (1955)
Seat 10: AlphaPoison (850)
ivegotaces posts small blind (25)
HERO posts big blind (50)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HERO [ Jc, Qs ]
gregsgreg folds.
sattuof folds.
nitrovette folds.
Macktry folds.
AlphaPoison folds.
tckrush folds.
Temperenzlar calls (50)
ivegotaces calls (25)
HERO checks.
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 4h, 5h, 9d ]
ivegotaces checks.
HERO checks.
Temperenzlar checks.
** Dealing Turn ** : [ Qc ]
ivegotaces bets (1195)
ivegotaces is all-In.
HERO calls (1195)
Temperenzlar folds.
** Dealing River ** : [ As ]
Creating Main Pot with $2540 with ivegotaces
** Summary **
Main Pot: 2540 |
Board: [ 4h 5h 9d Qc As ]
ivegotaces balance 1270, bet 1245, collected 1270, net +25 [ Js Qh ] [ a pair of queens -- As,Qh,Qc,Js,9d ]
HERO balance 7615, bet 1245, collected 1270, net +25 [ Jc Qs ] [ a pair of queens -- As,Qs,Qc,Jc,9d ]

The next hand:

***** Hand History for Game 2623392619 *****
50/100 Tourney Texas Hold'em Game Table (NL) (Tournament 15294995) - Tue Aug 30 11:39:32 EDT 2005
Table Multi-Table(439664) Table 17 (Real Money) -- Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: tckrush (500)
Seat 2: Temperenzlar (3375)
Seat 3: ivegotaces (1270)
Seat 4: HERO (7615)
Seat 5: Hope777 (3530)
Seat 6: gregsgreg (545)
Seat 7: sattuof (3025)
Seat 8: nitrovette (2060)
Seat 9: Macktry (1955)
Seat 10: AlphaPoison (850)
HERO posts small blind (25)
Hope777 posts big blind (50)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HERO [ 9d, 9h ]
gregsgreg folds.
sattuof calls (50)
nitrovette calls (50)
Macktry calls (50)
AlphaPoison folds.
tckrush folds.
Temperenzlar calls (50)
ivegotaces raises (1270) to 1270
ivegotaces is all-In.
HERO calls (1245)
Hope777 calls (1220)
sattuof folds.
nitrovette folds.
Macktry folds.
Temperenzlar folds.
Creating Main Pot with $4010 with ivegotaces
** Dealing Flop ** : [ Tc, 9s, 7s ]
HERO checks.
Hope777 bets (2260)
Hope777 is all-In.
HERO calls (2260)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 8h ]
** Dealing River ** : [ 3c ]
Creating Side Pot 1 with $4520 with Hope777
** Summary **
Main Pot: 4010 | Side Pot 1: 4520 |
Board: [ Tc 9s 7s 8h 3c ]
tckrush balance 500, didn't bet (folded)
Temperenzlar balance 3325, lost 50 (folded)
ivegotaces balance 0, lost 1270 [ As Ah ] [ a pair of aces -- As,Ah,Tc,9s,8h ]
HERO balance 4085, lost 3530 [ 9d 9h ] [ three of a kind, nines -- Tc,9d,9h,9s,8h ]
Hope777 balance 8530, bet 3530, collected 8530, net +5000 [ Ts Th ] [ three of a kind, tens -- Ts,Th,Tc,9s,8h ]

Should I have isolated pre-flop? I really didn't feel like I had a lot to gain from it. Sattuof, the first to limp, is the only one who I thought might have a hand to call with, and if he was limping a Q's or better, I wasn't expecting a fold. With all the limping, I didn't think anyone had overcards they could call with, such as AK. So really T's and J's were the only hands I was worried about driving out, and just stastically it is less likely that one of those two pairs is out there than that one of the three big ones is.

When Hope called behind me, I put him on a better pair, so even though there were a lot of draws out when I flopped the set, I figured they were more scary to him than they would be to me, and that he would push K's or A's when I checked to him.

So how's my line? Should I have isolated? Would anyone have folded pre-flop?
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  #2  
Old 08-30-2005, 12:35 PM
AWLurch AWLurch is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 12
Default Re: A very strange pre-flop hand

The only read from your opponent that I have gained over these two hands is that he will go all in with the top pair, at any given situation. i.e. As soon as the Q hit in the first hand you showed, he put all of his chips in the middle. Based on this logic, I would assume that any all in move pre-flop I would think could very well be a high pocket pair, making the chances pretty slim of your Pocket Nines being playable. I would definitely lay this hand down preflop. Lucky for you, you caught your set.

No real reads on all of the people to act behind you, but I will say that calling was possibly the worst play here, in case you are reraised and know you are beat. The Isolation raise will probably only be called by better hands
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  #3  
Old 08-30-2005, 01:09 PM
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Default Re: A very strange pre-flop hand

Obviously if anyone pushes over my call I fold- if they've got the cojones to do that with AK, they deserve the pot. What hands am I hoping to drive out with a re-raise, and which player do you think has them? I don't see early position open limping AK, or anyone else not raising with it. J's or T's are really the only option, and the money I lose pushing into Q's-A's outweighs my losses by letting T's and J's play, especially since they aren't guaranteed to fold anyway.

As for folding, I agree his history makes his push look a little stronger than usual, but with his stack facing that many limpers, a lot of hands are tempting to push, including AQ, AK, medium pairs, etc. I was more than happy to race him with dead money in the pot. Do I really have to put him on a better pair?
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  #4  
Old 08-30-2005, 09:42 PM
AWLurch AWLurch is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 12
Default Re: A very strange pre-flop hand

I'm basing that Overpair based on the hand you showed.
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  #5  
Old 08-30-2005, 10:48 PM
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Default Re: A very strange pre-flop hand

I realize that, I guess I'm just wondering why you're confident enough to fold 9's. This is a 5+1 tourney, so I'm always hesitant to give them credit when they make a big pre-flop push like this. I always think AK is the most likely hand when I see a huge push like this, and with my stack plus dead money in the pot, I am itching to race.

Does anyone else fold here? Would you do it anyway, or do you agree with Lurch that the top pair push from the previous hand makes it a different story?
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