Huge vag. or well played?

BottlesOf · #1 07-14-2005, 10:03 PM

This is vs. a 2+2er, we each know we're 2+2ers, and we see each other at the tables a lot. He's pretty good, a little passive maybe (pre and post numbers over a 2000 hand sample), but I usually don't focus on his play too much as I have him labeled as a 2+2er and work on other reads.

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP raises, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, 2 folds, MP caps, Hero calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP bets, Hero calls.

River: (7.75 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9.75 BB

etizzle · #2 07-14-2005, 10:07 PM

I would raise the turn, I dont think AA or KK will 3 bet and AK might call down.

obsidian · #3 07-14-2005, 10:14 PM

I think you need at least 1 raise in there somewhere. I'm not sure where the best place would be for it.

Alyssa · #4 07-14-2005, 10:17 PM

That's right. There are many more combinations of AK than AA/KK combined.

bugstud · #5 07-14-2005, 10:24 PM

actually, I kinda like it. At least for metagame reasons.

mdeck · #6 07-14-2005, 10:30 PM

This is a wierd situation. You could very well be ahead in this situation, so you'd think a raise is in order, and it might help define where you stand.

Raising the flop seems like a bad spot, as there's a chance he 3bets the flop with AK - raising the turn seems like it might be a good spot, but I think AA/KK would 3bet here; you said he knows you are a 2+2er, so he knows that the chance of you 3betting with a 3 or 8 pf is small, so a 3bet here would be in line.

If you raise and he 3bets, you can probably get away from this hand for the same 2 bets that you could pay to see a showdown. Do you think AK would fold to a turn raise, or call and fold the river UI? If he calls and folds the river UI, its the same number of bets as if you called down, as I think this line may lead him into believing you had missed overcards as well.

All things considered, I think that I like the call down line. While the raise may be for value if he has AK, I think the probability of him folding the river UI and folding to the turn raise causes you to win slightly less than 2 BBs in this spot, and if you get 3bet and fold its the same 2BBs that you can see a showdown with.

Following this logic, I like the calldown line, or maybe I'm a huge vag also [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

krishanleong · #7 07-14-2005, 11:06 PM

Raise the river.

Krishan

BottlesOf · #8 07-14-2005, 11:07 PM

this is what i'd change if i'd change anything. how to react to a 3-bet is the only issue, and whether i'm in a spot, where i wan't to deal with that issue.

krishanleong · #9 07-14-2005, 11:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
this is what i'd change if i'd change anything. how to react to a 3-bet is the only issue, and whether i'm in a spot, where i wan't to deal with that issue.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fold to a 3-bet is the default. But I think you know that. Congrats on being a moderater.

Krishan

imported_ncray · #10 07-14-2005, 11:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Raise the river.

Krishan

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I thought the river raise was the default line in WA/WB situations. You can have a lower PP betting into you the whole time and pay your river raise off, or you can fold to a river 3-bet, knowing you are beat. But would another 2+2er recognize this common WA/WB line and 3-bet with a lesser hand?