Not Betting Once with KK

pokertonbear1 · #1 08-23-2005, 04:45 PM

Hero:$3911
Very Agg. TAG: $3035
Button: $2067

Party Poker (6 max, 10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
3 folds. an over agg TAG (28/20/3.4) opens to 70, button with avg 27/8 stats makes it 180. I call, TAG calls.

Flop: 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, Very Agg. TAG checks, button bets $300, I call, TAG calls.

Turn: 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, Very Agg. TAG checks, Button checks.

River: 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, Very Agg. TAG moves in for $1400 or so. Button folds, Hero folds.

Final Pot:

weird line I know, but anybody got a better one?

FoxwoodsFiend · #2 08-23-2005, 05:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hero:$3911
Very Agg. TAG: $3035
Button: $2067

Party Poker (6 max, 10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
3 folds. an over agg TAG (28/20/3.4) opens to 70, button with avg 27/8 stats makes it 180. I call, TAG calls.

Flop: 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, Very Agg. TAG checks, button bets $300, I call, TAG calls.

Turn: 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, Very Agg. TAG checks, Button checks.

River: 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, Very Agg. TAG moves in for $1400 or so. Button folds, Hero folds.

Final Pot:

weird line I know, but anybody got a better one?

[/ QUOTE ]

Throw out 600 on the turn. fold to a raise.

radioheadfan · #3 08-23-2005, 06:14 PM

So your post says that you're playing at a 6 max table that's 10 handed. I'll assume that you were playing 6 handed.

You need to reraise in this spot to isolate the button. The hand would play itself afterwards if you pop it to something like 400 straight preflop.

lapoker17 · #4 08-23-2005, 06:17 PM

This is correct.

pokertonbear1 · #5 08-23-2005, 06:22 PM

sorry, this was a 9-10 handed 2k game. I thought i corrected all the stuff the convertor screwed up.

does this change pf, or is it an auto reraise?

one note, the TAG is a very good hand reader, and I didnt love the idea of having 3k behind, OOP with my hand nearly transparent.

radioheadfan · #6 08-23-2005, 06:28 PM

6 handed or 9 handed you still have to reraise. It's for isolation against the aggressive player who will likely come along for the flop if you simply smooth call.

TheWorstPlayer · #7 08-23-2005, 07:02 PM

If you really don't want to play postflop against the TAG, it seems to me like it would be a better line to just make it 700-800 preflop and get it all in on any flop. You can't go wrong by making him put in 1/3 his stack preflop. Save cold calling for when you have a very good read on the opponents play and WANT to play against him postflop with a somewhat disguised holding. Here, it seems like you'd rather not play him postflop with a fairly well defined holding, so just make him pay too much if he wants to try to outflop you.

9cao · #8 08-23-2005, 07:15 PM

I don't like this one bit since the TAG made the first raise, and a deeper stack made the reraise. Making it 700-800 preflop essentially tells them I have AA or KK and offers no chance for them to make a mistake by chasing a set or AK. On top of that put yourself in your opponents position if you hold AA and someone make it 700-800 in that spot. Unless you are really risk adverse you are just calling here and letting the money go in on the flop/turn.

I think the line preflop and on the flop is good and I would expect TAG to have QQ very often here.

TheWorstPlayer · #9 08-23-2005, 07:18 PM

I don't disagree with you. But the OP seemed more concerned about avoiding mistakes himself postflop than about not being able to induce mistakes from his opponents. If he has KK when an overaggro opponent has AA, oh well. But more likely he takes down a nice pot preflop.

#10 08-23-2005, 07:19 PM

Booooo. I am not crazy about this play (checking and calling all the way to the river).

The only reason you might want to check call is if in previous hands villain has been squeezing you out with regularity by forcing you to check fold to his bets and you are setting him up to be burned when you have a good hand. You also have to have a good read on his range of holdings, since you're OOP.

Otherwise, I wouldn't even think of attempting this. You've put yourself between a dog and a lamp post in trying to make decisions on whether to call off his bets.

It's up to you to make a bet either on the turn or on the river to figure out where you're at. Any sizeable raise to your pot sized bet will probably mean you need to give up your hand... but a check and a fold at the river is waaaay too weak a play... especially with Kings of all hands! WOOF