Flush draw. Got berated for being passive.

droolie · #1 10-18-2005, 01:48 PM

2/4 Party.

I'm in the BB on my first orbit and have no reads. I get 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

MP2 limps. Button raises. SB calls. I call. MP2 calls.

4 to the flop for 8SB.

The flop comes 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
SB checks. I check. MP2 bets. Button raises. SB folds. I call. MP2 3-bets. Button caps. I call.

3 to the turn for 10BB
The turn is the Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

I check. MP2 bets. Button raises. I call. MP2 calls.

3 to the river for 16BB.
The river is the 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
I bet the nuts(!?). MP2 calls. Button calls and proceeds to berate me in the chat box.

I think betting the river was a clear screw-up but I was hoping one of them would raise my bet. Kinda greedy and it probably cost me a bet. However if I had check raised button, MP2 probably folds and I might only get 2BB anyways. Weird situation.

The most interesting street I think is the flop. Most guys would probably have bet somewhere along the line but I'm not sure I dislike how I played it at all given my position to the pfr.

#2 10-18-2005, 01:53 PM

It looks nicely played to me. Betting or raising the flop won't buy you any free cards given your position and I think is EV neutral with two players already duking it out.

Betting out on the river is probably better than checkraising as both players are more likely to call (and the button may even raise) than if it got checked to the button and you raised (if you even got the chance to raise).

flair1239 · #3 10-18-2005, 01:59 PM

On the flop you have enough outs for a checkraise to have value if you knew they would both call. However this assumes no one has flopped a set and a higher flush draw is not out.

As it is with no reads I really see no reason to checkraise here. I also am really not crazy about betting, the flop without some sort of read to clue me in on how likely the people are to fold/call/raise.

I would not bet the turn either.

The river I think your hand is disguised enough to checkraise. The 7 should not be too frightening of a card for either TP, overpair, or set to check through.

Other than that I am playing this the same way.

brettbrettr · #4 10-18-2005, 02:04 PM

Your hand on the river is pretty well disguised. I think, yes, you should prb c/r there.

Your play on the prior streets is 100% fine. Its good to keep people in when you're drawing. Repeat: its good to keep people in when you're drawing.

Of course, if you think your pair outs are good the c/r'ing the flop is a viable line to try to get this HU.

brettbrettr · #5 10-18-2005, 02:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Betting out on the river is probably better than checkraising as both players are more likely to call (and the button may even raise) than if it got checked to the button and you raised (if you even got the chance to raise).

[/ QUOTE ]

If both players call you get 2 bets on the river. If the button bets and you raise and the other guy folds you get a crying call from the button = 2 bets.

If you get reraised or MP calls the 2 cold, bingo. River is an easy c/r.

shant · #6 10-18-2005, 02:07 PM

I think you could bet the flop, but as played it seems you can checkraise the river.

#7 10-18-2005, 02:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If both players call you get 2 bets on the river. If the button bets and you raise and the other guy folds you get a crying call from the button = 2 bets.

If you get reraised or MP calls the 2 cold, bingo. River is an easy c/r.

[/ QUOTE ]

You missed option 3 - it gets checked through.

brettbrettr · #8 10-18-2005, 02:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You missed option 3 - it gets checked through.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or option 4. The ceiling caves in and everyone dies. But given that the ceiling hasn't given way yet I don't expect it to. Given the action I expect button to bet. Its not as certain as expecting the ceiling not to cave in. But its close.

brettbrettr · #9 10-18-2005, 02:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think you could bet the flop,

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I might like this more. The goal is to get at least 2 bets in each on the flop. Given the pre-flop action it could likely go you bet, MP calls, Button raises, you call. The way it wne tyou still got the bets in...

KDawgCometh · #10 10-18-2005, 02:46 PM

i think that the only thing that I'd do different is probably lead the flop, but the way you played it is fine. I also like leading the river, because these guys will possibly raise it, so you can get in a three bet. You played this fine, honkey was just mad about the result