A problem with some religous views - Page 6

#51 09-22-2005, 12:02 PM

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Right and wrong comes from God whether you believe in Him or not.

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And your evidence for such a claim?

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...

For the most part...throughout history cultures have believed the same basic things to be right and the same basic things to be wrong.

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This is clearly not evidence of the claim that this morality comes from God. It could be a natural consequence of beings which generally must rely on each other for survival, thus community ethics evolve similarly across cultures so that communities can for the most part exist peacefully and prosperously.

txag007 · #52 09-22-2005, 12:14 PM

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This is clearly not evidence of the claim that this morality comes from God. It could be a natural consequence of beings which generally must rely on each other for survival, thus community ethics evolve similarly across cultures so that communities can for the most part exist peacefully and prosperously.

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Stay with me here. If what you say is true, then by what standard is "right" defined?

#53 09-22-2005, 12:19 PM

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This is clearly not evidence of the claim that this morality comes from God. It could be a natural consequence of beings which generally must rely on each other for survival, thus community ethics evolve similarly across cultures so that communities can for the most part exist peacefully and prosperously.

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Stay with me here. If what you say is true, then by what standard is "right" defined?

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It's not.

What standard is "right" defined amongst wolves in a pack?

chezlaw · #54 09-22-2005, 12:31 PM

Any chance of you and notready interupting your interuption to respond to the last responses I made to you.

chez

txag007 · #55 09-22-2005, 12:32 PM

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What standard is "right" defined amongst wolves in a pack?

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Wolves in a pack is not an example of a civilization. Wolves don't have laws against murder and stealing. We do. Therefore, in order to define murder and stealing as "wrong" by our laws, we have to have some standard by which "right" is defined. I'm asking you what that is?

#56 09-22-2005, 12:34 PM

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Therefore, in order to define murder and stealing as "wrong" by our laws, we have to have some standard by which "right" is defined.

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No we don't. I'm not aware of the need to define a moral standard in our legislative process, outside of constitutionality.

Let's look at federal law: 50+% of representatives vote, 50+% of senators vote, and signed by Prez (ibcrease to 2/3 vote if Prez vetoes). Nope, don't see any need to refer to an absolute moral standard in that law-making process.

NotReady · #57 09-22-2005, 01:00 PM

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Any chance of you and notready interupting your interuption to respond to the last responses I made to you.

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I can't find anything to add to what I've already said. It's a question of whether or not a good God can punish sin. If you "feel" this is wrong then your "feelings" disagree with what the Bible says.

chezlaw · #58 09-22-2005, 01:08 PM

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Any chance of you and notready interupting your interuption to respond to the last responses I made to you.

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I can't find anything to add to what I've already said. It's a question of whether or not a good God can punish sin. If you "feel" this is wrong then your "feelings" disagree with what the Bible says.

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That sounds in accord with my argument. You are saying god not being good is not possible so either my feeling is misleading or the bible (include other religous views here) is wrong. I don't want to dismiss the possibility of god not being good but assume you are just saying that on my simple argument it looks possible but on further inspection it proves not to be.

Do we agree by? Forgive me for harping on about this but if we can't understand each other at this simple level then we have no chance of progessing further.

chez

NotReady · #59 09-22-2005, 01:29 PM

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I don't want to dismiss the possibility of god not being good

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It's contradictory to say God isn't good. That would mean good is defined by something higher than God which would mean He isn't God as usually defined.

#60 09-22-2005, 01:33 PM

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I don't want to dismiss the possibility of god not being good

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It's contradictory to say God isn't good. That would mean good is defined by something higher than God which would mean He isn't God as usually defined.

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It is not contradictory, but only is if you assume that the creator of the universe must be good, which is not necessarily true. If I set up a fish tank and create an environment for the fish, this does not necessarily define me as "good" from their vantage point. In fact, by isolating them in the fish tank (as we are isolated in this universe), my intentions may be very far from good.