B&M Collusion?

[onegymrat]

I may have witnessed something, or I may have watched Rounders one too many times. It's hard to describe but I really felt that something wasn't right, and I'm not even sure if there is something I can do about it.

9/18 Commerce, full table. I sit and instantly noticed it was loose and a bit aggressive (what a surprise!). A male player in seat 5 (I'm in seat 1) tends to play a lot of pots, most of the time to the river. His chips tended to stay about the same the two hours I sat with fluctuations. Seat 7 is female and from their conversations, she is his girlfriend. They both seemed regulars to the game, although I've never seen them at Commerce.

I lose a couple of tough pots and was concentrating on all the loose players when I realized that everytime Girlfriend is in a pot (fairly tight player), Boyfriend is also there. Being a loose-aggressive game, it is often multi-way. Five or more times, by the turn, one other player will be caught in the middle of them. Girlfriend will bet, player will call, Boyfriend will raise. By showdown, Girlfriend will always win the pot while Boyfriend will muck without showing. At times though, they'll be headsup, she'll bet and he'll call. They'll laugh as Girlfriend takes the pot and Boyfriend mucks. By the end of my session, she's up about four racks or so.

Then again, he was lag. He thrice straddled, and won all three pots, twice on the river. He oftened bluffed when she wasn't in the pot also. Therefore, with that happening and them continuing to bet against each other headsup, it was hard to determine. But after six hands (that I noticed) in which he would pump up the pots for her, I tried to spot any signs that they were swapping. By that time, I had to go home.

Anyone seen (do) this? Is there something I can even do or say?

[lefty rosen]

I don't know if it was collusion but you could ask to see his cards, if you suspect it and put the guy on notice by calling over the pitboss. You may look like an a hole for doing it but playing 9/18 is rather expensive if you are being taken for a ride. Also I don't know of any winning players ever dating a crackhead loose cannon.

[emp1346]

just b/c the bet against each other heads up doesn't mean anything... they're not losing anything, as collusion or not, they're most likely splitting it anyway...

also, his individual play shouldn't be considered all that much either...

if he's always in the pot with her, and he typically raises after she does, to me that's a good sign of collusion, especially if he mucks the river... there doesn't need to be any signalling, as the action of her raising could be the signal to him that she has a hand that he should raise up for her...

if they're g/f and b/f, there's also little reason for them to sit across the table from each other (a basic necessity for basic collusion) instead of sitting next to each other like a typical couple...

i'd notify the floor...

[Prime Time]

I doubt clsn.
Remeber the three straddles and won them all?
Sounds like luck and LAG, thats all.
But that could be great cover as well.

[onegymrat]

As I stated earlier, I'm probably just pissed because the gal was up a chunk of chips. If I wasn't stuck and pressed for time, I would have been more at ease and concentrated more on trying to figure out if there was a system at all. Although my description was not very detailed, you're probably right, there was nothing going on. However, if there were and I notified the Commerce floor, they would be so clueless that it would be utterly pathetic.

[TM1212]

[ QUOTE ]
I may have witnessed something, or I may have watched Rounders one too many times. It's hard to describe but I really felt that something wasn't right, and I'm not even sure if there is something I can do about it.

9/18 Commerce, full table. I sit and instantly noticed it was loose and a bit aggressive (what a surprise!). A male player in seat 5 (I'm in seat 1) tends to play a lot of pots, most of the time to the river. His chips tended to stay about the same the two hours I sat with fluctuations. Seat 7 is female and from their conversations, she is his girlfriend. They both seemed regulars to the game, although I've never seen them at Commerce.

I lose a couple of tough pots and was concentrating on all the loose players when I realized that everytime Girlfriend is in a pot (fairly tight player), Boyfriend is also there. Being a loose-aggressive game, it is often multi-way. Five or more times, by the turn, one other player will be caught in the middle of them. Girlfriend will bet, player will call, Boyfriend will raise. By showdown, Girlfriend will always win the pot while Boyfriend will muck without showing. At times though, they'll be headsup, she'll bet and he'll call. They'll laugh as Girlfriend takes the pot and Boyfriend mucks. By the end of my session, she's up about four racks or so.

Then again, he was lag. He thrice straddled, and won all three pots, twice on the river. He oftened bluffed when she wasn't in the pot also. Therefore, with that happening and them continuing to bet against each other headsup, it was hard to determine. But after six hands (that I noticed) in which he would pump up the pots for her, I tried to spot any signs that they were swapping. By that time, I had to go home.

Anyone seen (do) this? Is there something I can even do or say?

[/ QUOTE ]

Definately sounds like coullsion to me. If he is always loseing to her, always in her pots and always mucking his cards (lots of couples Ive sat with like to reveal there cards to each other).

IF you would ask the dealer to reveal his mucked cards, and if he has absoulte rags youll look like a genius, youll be praised and they will be in some trouble. If hes even got a draw, or a piece of the flop, you look like a moron who has just unfairly accused a couple of cheating.

Instead I'd just ask to change my table, and take to the floor person about your suspecsions, and hell keep an eye on them.

Coullsion is very diffcult to prove in small-medium limit games, because some players are so poor, many raise with next to nothing.