Ruling help

[kodonnell]

I am still on the fence about this and have no problem with giving the other player his money.

[ QUOTE ]
Any pushing away of the hold cards face down signifies mucking.

[/ QUOTE ]

I read a thread about an instance where a third player requested (legally) to see a players cards after he had folded at showdown. When they were shown, it was determined he had the best hand and the pot was awarded to him. I cannot find the thread nor do I remember the details...is this right? If so, what signifies that my hand could not still be called as live.

[kodonnell]

I am beginning to think I owe somebody some money.

[JimHammer]

It's a home game and I assume it's mainly played for fun (a $3 pot). You intended to muck, but had the winning hand. You should come to an agreement with the other player. Maybe split the pot or draw a card to decide.

The letter of the law isn't what's important, it's keeping the game friendly.

[SheridanCat]

Your ruling was completely correct. Your hand was easily and obviously retrievable. I think I probably wouldn't have bothered, but it was probably a reflex move more than anything. Your players need to remember that this protects them as well in future situations.

Regards,

T

[Big Country]

[ QUOTE ]
I am still on the fence about this and have no problem with giving the other player his money.

[ QUOTE ]
Any pushing away of the hold cards face down signifies mucking.

[/ QUOTE ]

I read a thread about an instance where a third player requested (legally) to see a players cards after he had folded at showdown. When they were shown, it was determined he had the best hand and the pot was awarded to him. I cannot find the thread nor do I remember the details...is this right? If so, what signifies that my hand could not still be called as live.

[/ QUOTE ]

If a third player that was not involved in the showdown asks to see the cards, then the hand is to be "killed" by the dealer by touching the muck cards with them then exposing them. If it is asked to be seen by the player that "won" the hand, then they are considered live and if it is determined that it was a winning hand, then the player that asked to see them forfeits the pot and it is correctly awarded to the player that discarded the winning hand.

THe definition of what constitutes the "muck" is something that is different everywhere.

IMO, you have a tough call as you realized your error quickly before the pot was scooped in I assume, so in that sense, as it is an easily retrievable hand you should get the pot. However, I think that as the host, you have to hold yourself to an even higher standard and by tossing your cards in face down liek that, you forfeited the pot, regardless if you are entitled to it technically.

[ptmusic]

[ QUOTE ]
"Under "Dead Hands":
2. Cards thrown into the muck may be ruled dead. However, a hand that is clearly identifiable may be retrieved at management’s discretion if doing so is in the best interest of the game. We will make an extra effort to rule a hand retrievable if it was folded as a result of incorrect information given to the player."

If you go by this rule, I guess it's your discretion if you are management. But, since your intent was to muck and not because of some misinformation on another player's part, I would rule your hand dead.

Unless you were on a stone cold bluff that you didn't want the others to see why muck? Just flip-em, end of problem.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, you lose this hand.

The standard for mucking is moving your cards away from you face down.

The rare time when it's okay to retrieve easily identifiable mucked cards is when the folder was given misinformation. For example, if the opponent lied and verbally declared "full house" (but only had a pair), then you mucked your straight or flush because you thought you'd lost, then it becomes apparent the opponent had lied. At this point, your mucked cards can be retrieved (if possible).

But in your case, I'd give the opponent $3 the next time you see him.

-ptmusic

[CaptSensible]

you threw your cards in face down indicating a muck. IMHO you lose that hand. sorry [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]