Is this the best way to begin to learn Hold'em? New Players Log

[derick]

Evolution New Poker Player.

Hello,

I'm new to the two plus two forums. I'm also fairly new to playing Hold’em for real money. I'm looking for mentoring/comments about if I'm going about learning poker the most optimal way. If I had known now what I didn’t know before I would have done things much differently.

I’ve been playing poker since I was in grade school. I’ve just started to play Hold’em for money about 2 months ago. Prior to this I had played six months of no limit hold'em for play money on Ultimate Bet. I figured if I can beat play money games I probably can beat real money games. I heard about Ultimate Bet by reading Phil Helmuth's book, "Play Poker Like the Pro's". I don’t recommend doing the above as an optimal way to learn Hold’em.

I played my first game of Hold’em in a Casino about 2 months ago. The other players were drunk or loose or both. By chance and being a little selective of starting hands I won $110 at 2-5 limit poker (with a 10% rake). I went back the next day and lost $65 to a bunch of older conservative rock players who play during the days.

Books:

I decided I liked this game but I playskill need improving. I went out to the bookstore and bought all the books on poker.

Killer Poker, Killer Internet Poker, Ken Warren’s Big Book of Poker, Mike Caro’s Book of Tell’s, TJ Cloutier Tom MacEvoy “Championship Pot Limt and No Limit Poker”, Doyle Brunson’s SuperSystem.

Killer Poker recommend rec.gambing.poker

Rec.gambling.poker recommended Lee Jones “Winning Low Limit Hold’em”

Winning Low Limit Hold’em was one the better beginners books I’ve read. Lee Jones recommended, Hold’em Poker For Advanced Players.

After reading HEPFAP I found out about this forum.

Since then I’ve been reading Ed Miller’s Small Stakes Hold’em and have bought Middle Limit Hold’em and Theory of Poker. (I plan to read them after I get through Small Stakes Hold’em)

Building My Bankroll With Bonuses While I Get Experience.

I started with Ultimate bet because Ultimate Bet will pay the instacash charge on Neteller.
I put $50 into Ultimate Bet. I cleared a small 25% bonus on Ultimate bet playing .25/.50 and made about $12. Next I put money into William Hill and cleared their 5 pounds per hour bonus playing 1/2. Next on the list was Party Poker. I put in $200 for a $100 bonus and cleared the bonus playing .50/1 (I made about $13 ). Around this time I downloaded PokerTracker. It took me about 742 hands to clear the $100 bonus. After I cleared the Party Poker bonus I moved my funds to Paradise Poker and am slowly clearing that bonus playing .50/1. I bought the full version of Pokertracker yesterday and am up to 1147 hands in my database.

In my play so far I’ve been slightly positive bb/100 but with this small sample size it’s hard to tell. My biggest problem is I don’t know if I’m playing correctly or not. I was planning on posting some of my hands and asking for comments here. I seem to have lost the most with AQo a hand I’ve had 15 times. What pokertracker stats should I be looking at to try to improve my game?

Thanks for reading this, I plan to post my stat's progress to this thread as I progress/improve.

Derick

[Isura]

You seem to be off to the right start, but 1000+ hands is really too small to tell offcourse. I also suggest reading Internet Texas Hold'em, very detailed coverage of standard playing techniques/situations. I would suggest reading Theory of Poker before Small Stakes Holdem. TOP is a must read, it will get you thinking the game right from the beginning. A good way to accelerate learning: read the posts here, keep reading books, play, and post hands for feedback. Also, when others post hands, try to answer the questions yourself even if you don't actually post a response. Then compare with other posters responses, this will give you confidence whether you are playing ok. Good luck and welcome the forums.

[SomethingClever]

[ QUOTE ]
I figured if I can beat play money games I probably can beat real money games.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a terrible assumption, but you're on the right track as far as studying goes.

The best advice I can give is to read and re-read Ed Miller's SSH, and play within your bankroll (have at least 300 BB (big bets, not big blinds) for the limit you're playing).

Pokertracker is a good investment; pay attention to your stats but don't obsess over them.

Don't worry about AQo after 15 hands. Post some hands that you had problems with in the Micro-Limit forum.

Here are some stats that I think are relevant even after a fairly small number of hands.

VP$IP: Most good players are between 12 and 20. This can change depending on how loose/passive/aggressive your games are. At .5/1 on Party, I'm at around 16, but at 1/2, it's more like 13.

PFR: Needs to be at least 6. Preferably 7-9. See the Micro-Limit forum for examples of what hands to raise and when.

VP$IP SB: Don't play any two from the SB just because it's only a quarter. I've heard 35 as a ceiling figure for this stat, but I'm much tighter at around 22.

Good luck, keep studying and posting hands in Micro.

[Mangatang]

My advice for beginners wanting to learn and improve their game is always to start out playing at the micro-limits. Pacific has a great selection (.05/.10, .10/.20, .25/.50, .50/1) that allow you to work your way up the limits as your bankroll grows.

The way I taught myself was to read Lee Jones' book, then work on one section at a time, why playing at the micro limits. By focusing on only one section, you can make sure that you have mastered that stituation before you move on to the next. I've spelled out my plan of action in the "step-by-step" section on my site: www.KingsCascade.com

[12AX7]

Hey Mangatang... are spreadsheets now capable of graphical simulations? The screen shot of your preflop practice .xls seems to imply this.

How do you code something like that?

[RED_RAIN]

Take what you can from this.

I will copy what I wrote a bit ago for beginners.


As you said, concentrate on working a certain part of the game, you can afford to do this at micro limits since even if other parts aren't there, you won't lose (if you even do) a lot.

I would go by this way of order (You can move some around):
1. Preflop - Get this down, what do you do with ATs, AJo, QJo, QTs, A9s, 9s, 8s, 2s-6s, if you can't answer these for any position, any situation of limipers/raises preflop, you don't know enough yet
2. Drawing/Free Cards - Gotta learn when it's right to raise for a free card and when it's better to just call and get others to limp behind you to disguise your hand
3. Post flop - How to play Q6o when you hit top pair in the BB, how do you know when you are beat and when to call down
4. Check/Raise - When to do this, if you hit a monster, do you do it on flop, turn, river
5. Value Betting - When do you keep betting when you think it may be close that you may be beat
6. Player Reads - How do you read your PokerTracker stats etc

You can get a lot of free help by reading and posting on these forums. In the Micro Forum be careful, just because someone posts something doesn't mean it's right. There are a lot of posters there that don't know the correct answer or reasoning.

Learn why you do things, don't just memorize hands and plays. If you know why you do a certain play, then you can adapt when the cards a little different, or situation is different. This helped me a lot to move up faster.

I'm not sure what level you are playing. I think the best limit to play where you can learn and profit quickly is .5/1 at empire/party. 1/2 is a lot different and harder I think. 2/4 is very aggressive. .5/1 is extremely beatable, so if you aren't here, and can afford it, move here.

You can also search in the archives on topic such as drawing. I think a lot of people misplay when to go for a free card or not, when trying to maximize the amount won when you do win.

Knowing when to be able to bet second pair the whole way is also important instead of only betting when you have top pair.

Then how to logicallly narrow down a person's hand to a range of hands, then to a few hands, then down to less than 5 hands, then down to the cards themselves, then to the suits also.

If money is no issue, I think .5/1 is a great level to learn and large enough to make a bankroll quick. If you don't wish to invest money into poker yet, lower levels are fine, but then don't go crazed at moving up at lightning speed. Often people look at their bankroll and not their skill set just to move up real fast and then lose it at higher levels where they don't have the skills to win.

[Mangatang]

Excel has always had this type of graphical capability. I didn't use any fancy graphics though, just enough to get the point across. Excel has a lot of functionality that most people don't know about. I love Excel.

You can always download the file, then go into it and see how I set it up. I didn't protect any of the sheets or cells, so you can have a full look at how it's done.

[derick]

I am touched by the helpful and thoughtful advice this forum has given me. Thank you!

I’ve just gotten back from playing 2-5 Limit Hold’em at a Casino all night. I think my post flop play is much worse than my preflop play. While I was waiting for a table I read SSH up to the part where the quizzes are. I answered many of the questions wrong indicating that I have a long way to go in my knowledge of poker.

I’m going to see if I can figure out how to cut and paste PokerTracker output onto this forum. Thanks for pointing me in the right directions guys. I didn’t even know what questions to ask but you answered them! I’m going to post some more when I have the PokerTracker stat’s out and have had a little sleep.

Thanks Again!

Derick

[AncientPC]

[ QUOTE ]
I am touched by the helpful and thoughtful advice this forum has given me. Thank you!

I’ve just gotten back from playing 2-5 Limit Hold’em at a Casino all night. I think my post flop play is much worse than my preflop play. While I was waiting for a table I read SSH up to the part where the quizzes are. I answered many of the questions wrong indicating that I have a long way to go in my knowledge of poker.

I’m going to see if I can figure out how to cut and paste PokerTracker output onto this forum. Thanks for pointing me in the right directions guys. I didn’t even know what questions to ask but you answered them! I’m going to post some more when I have the PokerTracker stat’s out and have had a little sleep.

[/ QUOTE ]

Listening to the advice on this forum will generally put you on the SSH track of thinking, it made me from a losing to a bit above break even player. After I purchased and read WLLH and SSH, I shrugged off WLLH and I already knew most of SSH's main points by heart.

Regarding PT stats most people just re-type the data into a reply or you can take a screenshot, crop pic, upload pic, etc.

[derick]

Thanks for all the wonderful suggestions so far! You guys are great.



I just purchased poker tracker a few days ago.
My stats so far


Game Level.50/$1
Total Hands 1,300
VP$IP 21.46 // Is this too loose?
VP$ISB 38.04 // Is this too loose?
BB/100 2.67
Went to SD 29.72 // what should this be
Won $ at SD 61.68 //what kind of numbers do good players have?

PF Raise 7.00 // Should I be raising more?

Hands I win the most with J7s, QJs, QQ, A4s, J8s

Hands I lost the most with Ats, Ajs, KK, J6s, KJs, A5, T9s, 98s, TT

Game Level $0.50/$1
Total Hands 1300

What else should I look at in poker tracker?

Derick