Are SNG players good poker players ??

[raptor517]

let me just break down NO limit. im not even gonna get into limit right now. in my mind, there are 3 different types of NL cash games. Heads up, 3-6 handed, and 7-10 handed. it takes a different skill set to beat each of these games. certain adjustments NEED to be made to adjust to the number of players and the rapidity of the blinds coming around. a HU expert may get destroyed playing in a full ring game, and a full ring expert may get annhilated playing heads up.

SNGS are another NL skill set. to beat the small games, you need to know how to play tight early and learn to pick up the blinds late shovebotting. thats fine and dandy for the 33s on down. the 55s can be beat shovebotting, but messing around a bit more is acceptable as you have 200 extra starting chips.

the 109s are where it starts to get interesting. you can shovebot there.. but prolly not for more than about 6% roi. if you work in some solid cash game skills and play a bit post flop early, you can greatly increase yer return. the people that beat the 109s+ are generally very solid poker players at all different types of games, be it heads up, short handed, or even full ring cash games. they can usually mix up their game and adjust to different situations very quickly.

to ask a question like is a sng player a good poker player is kinda funny. if hes a good sng player, hes a good poker player, because he is playing poker. if hes bad, he prolly isnt a very good poker player, because he is losing at a poker game. im rambling now. eastbay summed it up very well. just read what he said. its late i get chatty. holla

[Arnfinn Madsen]

SNG-players must be very good, since I find it much easier to win in limit cash games than SNGs [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. I have tried to become good in both and I think neither is easier, both require talent and/or aquired skills which largely is exclusive to that specific game. I seem to have a natural talent for limit, which I have complemented with aquired skills, while I seem to have no talent for SNGs and have neither aquired any substantial skills. I guess personalities and interests are different.

[benfranklin]

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to ask a question like is a sng player a good poker player is kinda funny. if hes a good sng player, hes a good poker player, because he is playing poker. if hes bad, he prolly isnt a very good poker player, because he is losing at a poker game. im rambling now. eastbay summed it up very well. just read what he said. its late i get chatty. holla

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. The problem here is with the question. It's like asking if a good 5-card stud player is a good poker player. No doubt, but that doesn't do him any good if he can't find enough games to make a living at it.

The problem is that "good" is undefined here. We are all talking about a "good player" without saying what that means. My definition is easy. If you are making money, you are a good player.

Is a SnG player a great poker player? Not if he can't make money at other games. Should he care? That's up to him, and what he wants.

A good PLO player would probably sneer at SnGs as not being real poker, but might not be able to win at SnGs either. And a good SnG player would likely get killed at PLO. But both are good poker players.

There is general poker skill, and there are game-specific skills. Most discussions like this are along the lines of my skills are better than your skills, ha ha ha.

[PinkSteel]

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I love how all of us think that SNGs are the easiest to beat...yet there has to be a whole ton of people not on this forum losing piles of money playing us. I think i'd like to hear what a cash game player has to say about this subject. If they said that SNGs were the easiest, I would defintely think they're retarded for not playing them ahhaha.

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I've been a cash game player, mostly Party $25NL, since about January when I decided to focus on that. Before that I donked around for a few months in all types of games. I've returned to SNGs for a while to hopefully rebuild some bankroll.

I'm sure others have different experiences and there's no canned answer, but my observations have been:

For me at least, SNGs seem easiest to play. As has been noted, there are more variables at work with the blind structure and field thinning from 10 to 2, so that means more opportunities for mistakes, for people who don't at least appreciate all the dimensions and variables.

Furthermore, it feels like downside is substantially more limited in SNGs. They're like buying an option: your total loss is limited, but you have substantial upside. No-limit cash games are like a bottomless pit when you're tilting or running bad.

6-max is a game of reading opponents. I suck at it and I hate it. Hand ranges can be very wide, because the game is short-handed, and trickery can run rampant. Because it's not a tournament the blind structure is at least fixed, but the multi-dimensionality of 6-max is in your opponents, and personally I handle rule- and game-structure- variables much better than people variables. Good shorthanded cash game players rule the roost -- see the Mid-High NL forum.

Full ring cash is a game of patience, discipline, and stinginess. A lot of stinginess. You're waiting for the big kill in cash games, and in full ring you may wait a long, long time. It's the money that you save on 95% of your hands that accounts for profitability as much as the money you make on the 5%. So if you like to mix it up, if you get bored, if you like to take fliers -- you can bleed to death quickly at full ring.

I played full ring and learned the party line on the SSNL forum, it's excellent. When I played a disciplined, focused, tight game, and curbed all my desires to look people up, I made money. But online, it's a tough, tough game. I got bored for a couple of months and experimented with a LAG style, and promptly erased all my gains from the prior 6 months.

Maybe there are just a lot more fish playing tourneys. Like I said, they're options on a big ticket, and options of all varieties are largely for suckers. Excepting the people -- like those who read and post here -- who take such tourneys seriously, there are probably a lot of people who take comfort in knowing that "it's only 11 bucks."

[mmbt0ne]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:</font><hr />
I love how all of us think that SNGs are the easiest to beat...yet there has to be a whole ton of people not on this forum losing piles of money playing us. I think i'd like to hear what a cash game player has to say about this subject. If they said that SNGs were the easiest, I would defintely think they're retarded for not playing them ahhaha.

[/ QUOTE ]

SNGs are the easiest to beat and have a nice low variance. However, the max earn is pretty much capped well below what a good limit or NL player will make.

Yes they're easier (at the $22s for me at last) because so many suck at it. Follow this strategy for easy $$:

Play only AA-QQ (maybe JJ) and AK in the first few levels and push them against non-2+2ers. Or see a flop with them (including AQ and AJ suited/non and TT-88; lower pocket pairs if u can limp) and push if you hit something.

You double up to about 1,600, wait for bubble and most times one of the fish will go broke over-pushing on the bubble with K3o. Then you're in the ITM.

Not rocket science.

[inyaface]

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SNGs are easier to mutitable... There is less postflop play.

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I think most people would agree with this.

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...and therefore more profitable. There are less decisions involved

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I think a lot of people would disagree with this.

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I play SNG's mostly the 20's at X-party skins and turbo's at UB.

I have a decent ROI and I make about as much per hour as a skilled employee would at a regular job.
--
tjh

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Hi.
I´m new to SNG tournaments so I have some questions that I think you can help me with:

1) Is it OK to start at the 5$ level, or should I start at 10$ or evan higher?

2)I read Aleo´s Guide for Party 10$ SNG:s. Is this a good guide to follow evan if I start at lower levels?

3)At what sites do I find the easiest (is that word spelled that way?) SNG:s to beat?

4)Since you mentioned it in the post: How much does a skilled employee make per hour in your country (USA?) and how many SNG:s do you have to play per week to make that kind of money?

All the best
// Miraculx - Sweden

[Mr_J]

Easier to multitable = more tables = better hourly rate. Cash is obviously potentially more profitable as there are much higher stakes to play at.

I'd guess O8 would be the most profitable if you could multitable as heavily as you wanted. Has the multitabling ease of sngs and a better earn per table than HE. I dumped sngs a couple of times for O8, but there just aren't enough tables running to compete with 12+ tabling $55s.

[Shilly]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I play SNG's mostly the 20's at X-party skins and turbo's at UB.

I have a decent ROI and I make about as much per hour as a skilled employee would at a regular job.
--
tjh

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi.
I´m new to SNG tournaments so I have some questions that I think you can help me with:

1) Is it OK to start at the 5$ level, or should I start at 10$ or evan higher?

2)I read Aleo´s Guide for Party 10$ SNG:s. Is this a good guide to follow evan if I start at lower levels?

3)At what sites do I find the easiest (is that word spelled that way?) SNG:s to beat?

4)Since you mentioned it in the post: How much does a skilled employee make per hour in your country (USA?) and how many SNG:s do you have to play per week to make that kind of money?

All the best
// Miraculx - Sweden

[/ QUOTE ]

1. It's ok to start at the $5s, but (assuming you're playing on Party Poker) the rake is 20% instead of the general 10%. If you have enough money to start at the 10's, I would do so.

2. Following the advice in Aleo's guide is a great start, especially for the early stages of play. Keep reading posts on 2+2 about playing on the bubble to figure out that part of the game.

3. Party Poker

4. I can't answer for the OP, but I'm guessing he's making somewhere between $20-$40 / hr., depending on how many tables he's playing and what his ROI is. A solid player playing 8-10 tables at the 20's can make $40+/hr.