How are you going to deal with tougher games in the future?

[bernie]

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My experience over here is that the tables tend to have more young players who are trying to play well, they've read a book, and they think poker is a game of skill.

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Eventually those young players will have to deal with their egos. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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Now when I visit to chow down a Triple Turkey I find that most of the players under 30 and most think poker is all "skill over the long term". Most pots are 3-4 ways for 2 bets. People love saying "did I have odds?" or "what's the right play?".


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What limit is that happening at? If they still have the kill game, that could be a factor in busting out newbies too fast.

They took the kill off the mucks 3-6 game already. Word was that players didn't like it. Not really a suprise.

Most of my response was towards live play. At mucks, the games really haven't slowed down much at all. In fact, just before the kill games were put in and the addition of the 6-12(end of november), the 10-20s were going very strong. They were just starting to regularly spread 3 tables at once. Sometimes 4. (4 was unheard of before) Which could mean many are busting out online, figure it's rigged(hear that all the time on live tables) and decide they want it live where they trust it more.

However, I'm watching to see how the 20-40 game will be now that they don't qualify for JPs on it. I think that could affect the game.

For online, I've been seeing more and more posts about the mid limit (and some lower limits) onlines starting to get a little tougher. I play at UB which was known as a little tougher than normal so I may be used to it a little online and not seeing the trend as much.

However, online players will switch around. They may leave the full game to go shorthanded for awhile. Bust out there and try the SNGs or tourneys. They may still be there, just in different spots.

Obviously the bigger limits will feel it first then it will trickle down, to a point. In general, casual players will settle at a limit. Just like they kind of do on live 4-8s and 10-20s.

See ya at mucks sometime!

b

[brick]

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Eventually those young players will have to deal with their egos.

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that's the truth.

It is a kill game, so it does bust new players more quickly.

I like the kill games though because it encourages the gambling mindset. Maybe they should require a slightly bigger buy-in on those games. That would give new players more playing time before busting during a session.
If they're less likely to bust during a session they are more likely to play again.

[bernie]

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Eventually those young players will have to deal with their egos.

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that's the truth.

It is a kill game, so it does bust new players more quickly.

I like the kill games though because it encourages the gambling mindset. Maybe they should require a slightly bigger buy-in on those games. That would give new players more playing time before busting during a session.
If they're less likely to bust during a session they are more likely to play again.


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Back a couple/few years(pre WPT) the kill game eventually almost killed the action in that place, iirc. Not to mention there are more cardrooms around that area than ever before which might also be siphoning off some players.

Fwiw, I'm waiting to see how long the 6-12 w/kill at mucks is going to last.

b

I think one of things being overlooked here is that what most players struggle with is not understanding basic poker concepts, but rather implementing them rigorously and with absolute discipline. If you can do that you will probably always make money, even as games get a bit tighter and worse (in terms of bad play).
The people who may suffer if things dry up a bit are those who play well sometimes but are streaky and prone to tilt. These will be the people that the better players make their money off of (the new fish). Right now, fish are composed off complete ignoramuses and also those who are tilting. In the future most of the complete ignoramuses will be a thing of the past. The rising waters lift all boats and there is a basic poker education that is occuring.
At the same time, the more refined you get conceptually and the more disciplined you get, the more you improve relative to the general populace. Just like athletes are more "athletic" and generally "better" than those in the past, it comes down to the same thing.

-g

[adios]

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The poker boom is slowing, the number of new players and gambling types is now dwarfed by the number of players who are trying to play well.

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Where is your proof of this? This reads as something you've pulled out of thin air. If it's only an opinion you should state it as such. You've stated this as a fact that I don't think you can back up.

I've wondered about the "poker boom" myself and from experience I made a few conjectures. When casino poker first came to my locality the games were terrific. Lots and lots of easy money. After about a year and a half the games weren't quite as easy but they never really got that hard to beat. However, I will say there was a noticable difference after a year and a half if memory serves. At the time the city where I live had between 400,000 and 500,000 people. This was about 10 years ago. Now if we look at how things are today with poker more widely available to so many all over the world via the internet I have a hard time believing that poker is going to die out anytime soon and we'll be lacking for good games. I think this "poker boom" lasts a lot longer than a lot of people think it will. I mean no offense when I say that I've read comments similar to yours on these forums but I have a hard time seeing where the "poker boom" dying soon argument has any validity. I think these comments are not only way, way too pessimistic but have virtually no chance of being true FWIW.

[AlanBostick]

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You'll still beat the games

This is just kind of dumb. A bigger edge is better, no? Earning 2BB/100 is better in a soft game than 1BB/100 in a tougher one.

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Yes, earning 2BB/100 is better than earning 1BB/100, no doubt about it.

However, for those of us who have been playing and winning all along, the current boom is a gift. The question isn't "How will I cope when the games get tougher?" anywhere near so much as "Am I all I want to get from the boom before the games get tough again?"

I knew when it started that the boom will come to an end, just like all the other poker booms came to their ends. I also know that poker will be better after the boom's end than it was before, just as it was better after every other poker boom ended than it was before that boom.

I got into cardroom poker pretty much at its recent low point, in 1997. This was ten years after hold'em was introduced in California, and that party was long since over. Even though the party was long over, the games in California at the time were good enough that I could start to play and start to win without that much book learning. I don't think I could have done that fifteen years previously, playing draw or lowball, before the hold'em boom.

I'll be sorry when the present boom ends, yes. I hope that my game will be better than it was when it started. I am confident that I will remain a winner when it ends -- after all, I was a winner before it started. And I'm also hopeful that down the road another boom will come along, and that I'll be able to take some advantage of it.

[brick]

If I could rephrase I would say "In my opinion the poker boom is changing and the game will become tougher because the perception of poker is changing."

[MaqEvil]

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Or maybe you add a few wild ones to the mix and it's 6 ways for 4 bets. Books, pot odds and were never mentioned. Standard table talk was "suck and re-suck". Or "no nine at kenmore".


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That game rocked, I played there quite a bit one summer and there was almost always one table where all the crazy LAGs got together, along with the dealers. As long as you could work your way to that table, it was easy money, huge variance though.

[RydenStoompala]

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How are you going to deal with tougher games in the future?

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I'm going to wine about the dealer, ask for a setup every 30 minutes, take ten minute breaks every ten minutes and critcize everyone else's play. When someone makes a mistake, I am going to nag them about it for six straight hours. When I make a mistake, I am going to say something that is borderline psychotic like "I always get rivered when I raise with Q,2 offsuit." I will ensure nobody who plays with me can possibly enjoy the game.

Oh, I apologize. I thought you said "what do a lot of players do about tough games now?"

My mistake.