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#11
12-12-2005, 03:46 PM
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Re: Did I just collude?? I feel dirty...
[ QUOTE ]
while your play wasn't cheating, it simply sucked. You put in 2 bets on a river where you should have put 0. Maybe thats why you feel dirty. [/ QUOTE ] Here's the thing. OP couldn't have known his buddy's hole cards. If he did, then he was cheating. All this commentary about "the only way one of us was going to win" is in hindsight knowing the way the hand played out. To add to my first post, its not the cleanest thing in the world, but far from collusion. The play was suboptimal all around. Not cheating though. 
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#12
12-12-2005, 03:52 PM
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Re: Did I just collude?? I feel dirty...
[ QUOTE ]
while your play wasn't cheating, it simply sucked. You put in 2 bets on a river where you should have put 0. Maybe thats why you feel dirty. [/ QUOTE ] Uh, not quite sure you "get it". Hypothetical 1: OP checks it through, random dude takes down $530 pot. Hypothetical 2: OP invests $80 to help his friend take down $690 pot; Friend likely buys beers for him afterward (maybe even pays him back the $80 he put in on river...I know I'd do that for a buddy...although then the situation does approach cheating).
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#13
12-12-2005, 03:54 PM
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Re: Did I just collude?? I feel dirty...
The play is cheating because there is no way it could have benefited him were there not an implied arrangement to split the money at a later time. He intentionally made a bad play in order to have an opportunity (implied) to split money that he had no chance of winning fairly. That is collusion, and it is cheating.
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#14
12-12-2005, 03:58 PM
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Re: Did I just collude?? I feel dirty...
[ QUOTE ]
The play is cheating because there is no way it could have benefited him were there not an implied arrangement to split the money at a later time. He intentionally made a bad play in order to have an opportunity (implied) to split money that he had no chance of winning fairly. That is collusion, and it is cheating. [/ QUOTE ] If you can point out where the arrangement was to split the money, I'd be interested. As far as I can tell, there was no such arrangement. Just one guy who liked to help his friend take down a big pot. (as i wrote above, if i were "Dave", I'd probably pay my buddy back the $80 he put in on river...which I admit, only further sullies the situation)
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#15
12-12-2005, 04:00 PM
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Re: Did I just collude?? I feel dirty...
Even tho it was not pre-planned, this IS collusion. You bet knowing that you would not win the pot, but is rather providing the opportunity for another player to win it. THAT is collusion.
Fair poker is each player acting solely in his own self-interest. Dave did the correct thing, raising to drive out the winning hand so he can win. But you had bet that river knowing it would only provide Dave the opportunity to do this, without real expectation that your bet alone would win the pot for YOU. That third guy was right to go bonkers. You cheated him.
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#16
12-12-2005, 04:00 PM
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Re: Did I just collude?? I feel dirty...
[ QUOTE ]
The play is cheating because there is no way it could have benefited him were there not an implied arrangement to split the money at a later time. He intentionally made a bad play in order to have an opportunity (implied) to split money that he had no chance of winning fairly. That is collusion, and it is cheating. [/ QUOTE ] You clearly lack understanding of what happened...so... OP couldn't be certain that his play wouldn't win HIMSELF the pot. He DIDN'T KNOW that his buddy would do what he did. He fas fairly certain, but he wasn't sure. Had no chance of winning fairly? WTF are you talking about bro? Bad play? Not with an uber-tight player who makes it clear he's disgusted with the river. Bet at it and try to get him to fold a better hand. Not to mention, where the hell do you get the "implied arrangement to split the money"? You need to either brush up on your reading comprehension, or at the very least your poker game.
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#17
12-12-2005, 04:01 PM
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Re: Did I just collude?? I feel dirty...
Even if the money was never returned, hero's river bet has no purpose other than helping his friend win by squeezing the other guy out. Since the bet has no value, and hero knows this, he is cheating.
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#18
12-12-2005, 04:04 PM
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Re: Did I just collude?? I feel dirty...
[ QUOTE ]
I call down, just because pot is so big, and I thought that it would look uber-suspicious if I had just folded [/ QUOTE ] More suspicious than calling with a pair of 9s? If you wanted to avoid suspicion, why'd you show your hand? -McGee
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#19
12-12-2005, 04:04 PM
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Re: Did I just collude?? I feel dirty...
[ QUOTE ]
Even if the money was never returned, hero's river bet has no purpose other than helping his friend win by squeezing the other guy out. Since the bet has no value, and hero knows this, he is cheating. [/ QUOTE ] Hero didn't know his buddy's hole cards. If he bets and both others fold, was this play still cheating? The bet has value because it may win hero the pot. If he knew either A) his buddy's hole cards, or B) that there was a repayment coming later on, then I'd give you cheating. But not here. Stop being such a nit, there was no collusion here.
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#20
12-12-2005, 04:05 PM
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Re: Did I just collude?? I feel dirty...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I call down, just because pot is so big, and I thought that it would look uber-suspicious if I had just folded [/ QUOTE ] More suspicious than calling with a pair of 9s? If you wanted to avoid suspicion, why'd you show your hand? -McGee [/ QUOTE ] The showing of the hand is the sketchy part to me. It just wasn't necessary.
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