Fold to that river bet?

Kumubou · #1 12-21-2005, 01:36 AM

Over the last few thousand hands I have had a fold to river bet rate over 80%. Ugh. While a lot of that is due to just running bad (getting checkraised on the turn by a passive player when you hold a strong draw and contintualy bricking the river gets very old very quickly), it has been a flaw of mine to fold to too many river bets.

To wit, three hands:

[/ QUOTE ]Hand 1 -- SB is 30/20/3, one the tighter side of LAG. Has a tendency to semi-bluff even thin draws HU and suck out hard. The CO is a dooooooonk, at 56/10/1.5 and has been known to make some insane plays on both ends of the spectrum (he's called me down with the nuts, and bluff checkraised while playing the board). Unpredictable and stupid.

Converted at PokerGeek
Absolute Limit Hold'em Ring - $2/$4 Stakes (6 max, 6 handed)

Preflop: Heroine is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, LP calls, 1 fold, Heroine raises, Small blind calls, Big blind calls, LP calls

Flop: (7.50 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
Small blind checks, Big blind checks, LP checks, Heroine bets, Small blind raises, 1 fold, LP calls, Heroine calls

Turn: (6.75 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Small blind bets, LP calls, Heroine calls

River: (9.75 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Small blind checks, LP bets, Heroine?

Pot: 10.75 BBs

[/ QUOTE ]Hand 2 -- Kind of a weird villan, at 22/8/4.5. Obviously tight and not that aggro pre-flop but aggro post-flop. Might just be an anomoly due to being cold-decked.

Converted at PokerGeek
Absolute Limit Hold'em Ring - $2/$4 Stakes (6 max, 5 handed)

Preflop: Heroine is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, Heroine raises, Button folds, Small blind folds, Big blind calls

Flop: (4.50 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Big blind checks, Heroine bets, Big blind raises, Heroine calls

Turn: (4.25 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Big blind checks, Heroine checks

River: (4.25 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Big blind bets, Heroine?

Pot: 5.25 BBs

[/ QUOTE ]Hand 3: Villan is an absolute unknown.

Converted at PokerGeek
Absolute Limit Hold'em Ring - $2/$4 Stakes (6 max, 6 handed)

SPreflop: Heroine is LP with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, Heroine raises, CO folds, Button folds, Small blind folds, Big blind calls

Flop: (4.50 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Big blind checks, Heroine bets, Big blind calls

Turn: (3.25 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Big blind bets, Heroine raises, Big blind calls

River: (7.25 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Big blind bets, Heroine?

Pot: 8.25 BBs

Knoler · #2 12-21-2005, 01:57 AM

I think you can make a pretty good case for folding the turn in hand 1. On the river, folding >> raising > calling. There just aren't many times when both SB and LP have draws with no pair. To be honest, I think you can take the free card on the flop, too. With 3 bad guys you'll pick up this pot almost never. You might be reverse dominated, and no pair folds the flop, you have no BD draws (edit: no good ones, anyhow), and some pair outs make a board 3 flush -- things don't look good.

Fold the river in hand 2. Your only real option is betting the turn; but check / folding it down is fine, I think.

Call hand 3. No matter what, you should probably be taking notes on what he's running the stop & go with.

-Brian

#3 12-21-2005, 02:04 AM

if yer not folding the turn, then the river is a sure fold. What do you think he c/r you with?

edit: hand 1

Redd · #4 12-21-2005, 02:14 AM

Hand 1: I fold the turn. I fold the river too; even if the donk is being a donk the SB was trying to protect something that beats you and probably won't let go. I see what you're getting at but I don't think we're good very often here 3-way.

Hand 2: I'd say if you want to see a showdown you'll have better fold equity if you bet-fold the turn and check behind the river. I think the pot is small enough to check behind the turn and c/f the river though.

Hand 3: I'd pay off the donkbet. What about the possibility of just calling down after the turn? There is alot of hands that you want to charge, but that turn card didn't open any obvious semi-donk-bluffing possibilities besides a genuine queen.