stop n gos....ineffective?

[Bluff Daddy]

[ QUOTE ]
Three main things for the stop-and-go (at the least the all-in version). First, your hand is too good to fold preflop for the conditions. Second, if you reraise preflop it won't be enough to make them fold. Third, if you bet the flop it will be enough to make them fold if they miss.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[/ QUOTE ]

[Exitonly]

thats why you (we) have to startt leading out into preflop raisers.. probe bets/Stop and gos look obvious now, so have to lead into them for value.

[kyro]

This is fairly vague, IMO. When do you think we should be doing this? In the same situation when we'd normally use a SnG or just in general?

[johnnybeef]

[ QUOTE ]
thats why you (we) have to startt leading out into preflop raisers.. probe bets/Stop and gos look obvious now, so have to lead into them for value.

[/ QUOTE ]

yep, as a matter of fact, the ones that i made were value bets and have gotten called with garbage.

[Freudian]

I think most of the time it is easy to put you on a hand that is unrelated to the flop, ie a random hand that most likely missed the flop. So with the pot odds a call is right.

I know I sniff out stop'n go's a lot simply because the other guy with that kind of stack in that stage of the tournament would check to me if he hit the flop. Why would a solid player just call preflop and push postflop? The M.O of a solid player is to push or fold. When he diverges from that pattern it means something. Here it means the good old stop'n go

That said, I find them to work pretty well when you have a decent amount of chips simply because people don't want to risk 1000 chips when they also miss the flop. Afterall I could attempt the stop'n go with a pair of fives and be ahead of him.

The point of the stop n go is that it just has to work greater than 0% of the time to be +EV. If nobody ever folds, then it's even money with just pushing preflop ("you have no FE preflop").

In other words, always stop n go when Raymer's conditions are satisfied because it is always at least as good as the other options.

I tried to make a thread about this but got flamed: If you have AA and 301 chips on the BB and someone raises to 300, your proper play is a stop and go. The whole point of the stop and go is to get your opponent to make an obviously incorrect fold some % of the time (even if it's (10^-42)%).

[bawcerelli]

what about the times when you want a call? check?

[valenzuela]

Yesterday I stopped n goed my way deep into a MTT. Stop n go are really useful where ppl are risk averse, in SNGs that situation may come up often.
Also the concept of a stop n go aint smart because what happens when u want a call isntead of a fold on the flop?? I think in that situation u have two options:
1) check
2) bet half of ure remaining stack

Slowplaying cant really hurt when half of ure( oponent) stack is on the pot, I think slowplaying after an inicial stop n go planis more of a MTT concept where those extra chips are really useful.