Is This Collusion?

TaintedRogue · #1 08-23-2005, 10:37 PM

15/30 Hold Em Home Game

What we've got is guys who have played together for years. New guy, probably only played with them off and on for a year or so, finds that when he's in the hand against 2 others, they'll be aggressive but once he folds, the 2 old buddies will ck it down from wherever the "new guy" folded.
One guy may have a set of aces and the other guy a straight draw and they'll check it down. They don't show their hand till the end, but a set of aces......checking it down.

Weatherhead03 · #2 08-23-2005, 10:49 PM

Yes it is.

Buckshot · #3 08-23-2005, 10:50 PM

If the two guys raise in a fashion that the new guy is squeezed inbetween then yes. Otherwise, no.

~stephen

Pot-A · #4 08-23-2005, 10:51 PM

That's a tough call. I see it all the time, and I hate it, but I'm not sure it's collusion. The question (which you'll never be able to answer) is "are they raising because they're playing normally until they're heads-up, or are they raising in order to become heads-up.

In the AA guy's defence, if he and the straight-draw guy always check it down he'll feel somewhat obligated to do so even with a strong hand.

If it was really collusion one of them would probably have be the river so you never get to see the cards.

I don't think I'd play in this game. If you accuse them of colluding there's hard feelings all around, and if you keep it to yourself you're always gonna wonder. I can always find a more profitable game online, so the "hard feelings" problem carries more weight than it used to (i.e. I'm really there to relax and enjoy - if I'm hunting I'll go home and fire up the computer).

ArturiusX · #5 08-23-2005, 11:48 PM

The new guy could definitly exploit this tendency.

AlwaysWrong · #6 08-24-2005, 04:38 AM

How? The don't adjust their play until he folds.

If the players are being open about it I don't think there is any problem. It is common practice and doesn't affect anyone but the two friends.

Mikey · #7 08-24-2005, 08:23 AM

I once played in a game like this, it was actually 3 handed. The two guys were friends and it was bothering them that I was winning and then when I was in a hand with them, they would play strong, once I drop, it was check, check, check, check.

I don't know why I continued playing in this game, but I did and I didn't comment once about it.....

Now that I think it over, it was probably best not to have played in it....

TheWorstPlayer · #8 08-24-2005, 09:42 AM

Were they playing normally when you were in the hand and then checking it down when you were gone, or were they playing super-aggro when you were in the hand? If it is the former, it doesn't cost you anything. They are just deciding how to split their pots between themselves - it doesn't affect you. If it is the latter, then you are getting 2:1 on every bet you put in the middle, just go to showdown often.

andyfox · #9 08-24-2005, 02:07 PM

I have an arrangement with a good friend. When there are more than just the two of us in the pot, all bets are off: play as hard as you want. But if it's head-up, then we only bet top pair or better.

One time we were playing and we were the only two to see the flop. It was checked all the way to the river when I made a set and before I could act my friend turned over his A-Q no pair and I then showed my set without betting. One of the other players, a casino employee, starting mumbling about the game being "too friendly."

Next day, the mumbler is in a game and there's another casino employee in the game. They checked down a hand where both of them flopped a flush. I asked him if this game was just friendly enough.

Lawrence Ng · #10 08-24-2005, 03:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
15/30 Hold Em Home Game

What we've got is guys who have played together for years. New guy, probably only played with them off and on for a year or so, finds that when he's in the hand against 2 others, they'll be aggressive but once he folds, the 2 old buddies will ck it down from wherever the "new guy" folded.
One guy may have a set of aces and the other guy a straight draw and they'll check it down. They don't show their hand till the end, but a set of aces......checking it down.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's not collusion.

This is collusion:

Buddy 1 has KK UTG

Fish in MP has say 68 spades.

Buddy 2 has AA on the button

Buddy 1 raises, fish calls, buddy 2 re-raises, Buddy 1 just calls, fish calls.

Flop is a 2-2-7 with two spades.

Buddy 1 checks, fish checks, Buddy 2 bets, Buddy 1 folds...

This is the new method of collusion, do you see why?

Lawrence