Borgata 80-160 Omaha8 Hand

[Jeffage]

So I'm in an 80-160 Hold Em game at Borgata that converts into a half and half game b/c a huge action player that is fueling the game demands it. I'm not comfortable enough with my Omaha game to play these stakes, but when I say it 6 or 7 to the flop, I figure I'll play tight and try to avoid trouble. Anyway, this hand comes up.

I have A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] in the BB. Folded to a very loose player (any 4 will do) who calls. Action guy who game is built around raises (SOP), couple coldcallers, SB folds, I call. Flop comes K-2-3, rainbow style giving me a pair and the nut low draw. I bet, loose player calls, action guy calls and the others fold surprisingly. The turn is an offsuit 7 giving me the lock on the low side. I bet, loose player raises, action player then makes it 3 bets (while he is very aggro I think he is quite strong here). One of them has to have A4 also right? And the other has to have me beat for high right? ARG. I really didn't even want this game to go half and half but didn't want to be lone dissenter. Would anyone 4-bet here to potentially drive out a better high hand in the middle...I mean, this guy is crazy here, but not blind. Would anyone fold? Well, I coldcalled. The rest of the turn and river is somewhat interesting also, but I'll save it for later. How off is my approach to this hand?

Jeff

[Ribbo]

Why would you think AK would be beat here? More to the point, why can't both opponents have A4? Folding isn't an option and it will likely be capped if you call, so reraise yourself then check call the river. Hopefully the other guy with A4 will realise. Plus I don't believe your high is that bad on a hand where all the action started when the low hit the turn.

[Buzz]

Jeff - round #1 - Your starting hand is fine. Not great, but good enough to call a pre-flop raise.

round #2 - Nice fit with the flop. I like your bet.

round #3 - You made your low. And you still have an outside shot at high. Although you have no counterfeit protection, I like your bet.

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One of them has to have A4 also right?

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Wrong.

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And the other has to have me beat for high right?

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Probably. But maybe not.

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Would anyone 4-bet here to potentially drive out a better high hand in the middle...I mean, this guy is crazy here, but not blind.

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It's not a bad idea. I just don't think it will work. If the guy in the middle had just called, I would make it three bets. But the guy in the middle raised. I think that lowers the possibility of re-raising to knock him out.

The other thing is, once both of your opponents raise, you don't really know where you stand.

You might be quartered or even sixthed for low at this point. And you could be counterfeited on the river. (But that would make you two pair, which might win for high here).

You still have a chance for high, especially if both opponents have nut low hands. Or maybe both of these guys have high hands and you're the only low.

You have to wonder, "Are these guys betting to try to bully an opponent out of the pot, or are they betting the nuts?" Very hard to tell where you stand.

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Would anyone fold?

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I would not fold.

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Well, I coldcalled.

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That's what I would have done.

You do have a nice hand and you do have a nice fit thus far with the board. And you're playing with Texas hold 'em players who might be using Texas hold 'em strategies.

But you're already playing for more than you really want to play for. And you don't know where you stand.

Very hard to tell what your opponents are up to. Could be your worst fears will be realized. But I like your chances here.

At any rate, I think you simply stand your ground, just as you did.

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How off is my approach to this hand?

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I'd say you're right on.

Just my opinion.

Buzz

[Ironman]

I think the key here is something that Buzz said, "you are playing Hold 'em players with Hold 'em strategies."

I would reraise here and put the pressure firmly back on their shoulders.

Maybe someone else has a set...maybe the other guy has A 4 (but I doubt it) I'll bet one of them thinks their A 5 or A 6 is good with all those low cards and is trying to knock you out.

A nut low and top pair is a hand to dream about...

Dave

[GooperMC]

[ QUOTE ]

A nut low and top pair is a hand to dream about...

[/ QUOTE ]
HU yes, in a 3 way pot where both opponents really like their hands, not really.

I think that folding would be horrible, raising with the intention of slowing down if everyone called would be acceptable, but calling would be best.

I would think about capping in order to
1) To get someone to fold.
2) To take control of the pot to get everyone else to slow down on the river.
Against HE players I don’t think that a raise would accomplish either of those.

[sfer]

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So I'm in an 80-160 Hold Em game at Borgata that converts into a half and half game b/c a huge action player that is fueling the game demands it

[/ QUOTE ]

Fat Russian guy?

[Jeffage]

No.

Jeff

[Jeffage]

Ok, thanks for your responses. The river came an offsuit 9. I checked, the loose player checked, action guy bets, I call and loose player calls. Action guy turns over A-4-x-x (no high hand) for the nut low. Middle guy turns over (I kid you not) QQ73 for two pair to win high. So I got quartered. If the middle guy was good, he may have released on the turn if I capped it, but I think this guy calls (but maybe not, who knows). I know I got ripped at the table for not 4-betting the turn. But I did well at the game so I can take the criticism. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] More comments appreciated.

Jeff

[gergery]

Put both your opponents on potential hands on the turn, with weighted likelihood. For them to be jamming there, they need either A4, twopair or better for high, or perhaps some draw like A45 or 456x (given your description of them).

So they could have
A4 and twopair+ -- you win 1/4, this is most likely
They both go high, you win 1/2, this is possible
A4 and draw/bluff – you win 3/4, this is less likely but possible
A4 and A4 with better high -- you win 1/6, this is rare
A4 and A4 with worse high -- you win 4/6, this is rare

Since winning 1/2 is ~2x as good as getting 1/4 is bad, then multiply out the rough likelihood and outcomes, and I’d say getting more money in is likely best, but calling down is very close too.

--Greg

[jkinetic]

I was playing there all weekend, what do you look like?

My name is Jasper, I was the Asian/Korean dude from LA, I played a little Omaha, 80 and 150 holdem and that Omaha game was awesome and I suck at Omaha 8.