Worth the crying call here?

[zuluking]

4-8 game. I'm in the MP with Ad 10s. Lots of calling stations in this game, with 3 calls to me, and 3 calls after me making it 7 BB.(should I have raised?) Flop is As 7s 10h. 3 checks to me, I bet, and everyone calls as usual, 14 BB. Turn is 5c. 3 checks, I bet, 2 call, 3 fold, the guy to my immediate right check-raises, I call, the rest call, 22 BB. River is 3h. Guy to my right bets out, I make the crying call figuring he has trip 5's, the other 2 fold. He turns over 7 7. Leans over to me and says, "I slow-played 'em to sucker you in." Was it worth the call?

[Ed Miller]

I muck ATo in that situation. Otherwise... once you flop top two, you can't lay them down given the action.

[zuluking]

Whoa! You'd muck ATo from the MP?

[Ed Miller]

ATo is a trashy hand... especially in a multiway pot. First in from LP it is worth a play... but after several limpers in MP it is an automuck for me.

[RiverJohn]

ATo is a pretty weak hand to begin with, but in a game filled with calling stations, it becomes even worse. You will need to hit two pair, a straight, or trips (hopefully Ts) to be confident after the flop. ATo is best played in late position and hopefully headsup or threeway when your opponents seem weak.

Once you saw the flop, your play was pretty good. You can't very easily fold top two pair here with such a large pot unless you know your opponent well.

[Dynasty]

I'd almost always fold ATo in MP after 3 limpers. With no limpers, I would raise with it. With one limper, I might raise with it.

[Lunar Tweak]

when i'm faced with this type of situation, i usually 3 bet against most opponents. u are usually up against another 2 pair. u of course should check the board for straights and flushes. another reason is to see if ucan knock out the rest of the field. the third, is if u have doubts about ur hand u can check it down. or if u fill up, then u can of course bet. gets u through the showdown for same amount of BB's, but u gain a bet when u improve. also, u increase ur chance of winning the pot by knocking out the rest of the field. just another occasion of if ur going to call, u should consider raising.

on a side note, i also recommend folding ATo in these loose games. however, i usually limp w/ AJo, is this a leak for me?

[cpk]

Nah, these guys are far too conservative.

It's obvious you're playing in a loose-passive game with people who will play Ax smaller than AT. Given this, and the pot odds you get, AT is a clear winner from MP on back, and ATs is a clear winner in any position.

Raising before the flop would've been a mistake with this hand. It really doesn't do anything for you. If you were suited, I'd definitely say raise because you want as much money in the pot as you could get.

If you have trouble getting trapped on the flop, are poorly bankrolled (and thus need to minimize variance), or are otherwise a wuss, then muck ATo in these game conditions. Also, in tough games, ATo is a waste of time--but usually you will face 2 bets by then, so that makes mucking easy.

But dropping ATo in the face of three limpers is just plain weak, especially if they will play Ax.

[cpk]

In passive games, AJo and ATo perform about the same--both on slightly the plus side of marginal. Vs. 4 opponents, for example, the AJ will win 28.9% hot-and-cold, and the AT will win 27.6%. Given your 4:1 odds on a better than 5:2 proposition (actually even better, because of your better post-flop skill, right?), it would be silly not to play either of these hands in soft games. Given the possibility of a raise behind, I cut off at ATo in MP and A7o in LP.

[and yeah yeah yeah, blah blah blah hot-and-cold bad, but remember that loose-passive games closely resemble these hot-and-cold simulations!]

Remember, though, this is for loose, passive games only. In tougher games, any offsuit ace below AQ should be mucked unless you are first in from middle position or later (this is the "gap" principle). Concerns about kicker domination arise, and it becomes difficult to play your hand after the flop if you have a position disadvantage.

[zuluking]

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