5-10 river scare - Page 2

MoDOH · #11 07-07-2005, 05:32 PM

To check-call here you need some kind of a read on the villain. aginst an unknown i like to bet ~200 on the river for the reasons the other posters have mentioned

flawless_victory · #12 07-07-2005, 05:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I limp there or make a 6-7xBB bet, nothing inbetween.

[/ QUOTE ]if you learned to play after the flop you wouldnt need this policy. bye.

DeezNuts · #13 07-07-2005, 05:38 PM

What amount would I need to raise pre-flop in this spot? I guess my limit background tells me that I do not want to put a lot of money in with this hand pre-flop vs more than 1 opponent. I think this is a limp or raise 7-8BB, and I chose to limp. I am pretty new to NL, and playing small pots is probably better for me at this point. These are decently loose games, btw. Sorry that wasn't mentioned.

I do agree that the river was played pretty badly, which is the reason for my posting here.

DN

flawless_victory · #14 07-07-2005, 05:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What amount would I need to raise pre-flop in this spot? I guess my limit background tells me that I do not want to put a lot of money in with this hand pre-flop vs more than 1 opponent.

[/ QUOTE ]S&M are pretty smart guys, but if they are the reason you are scared to put some money in PF with JJ... youve obviously misunderstood something. not raising in the sb with 16 limpers and JJ would be cold stone retarded in a LHE game. FOURTH NUTS.
in your situation, nothing wrong with making it 40 to go.

gomberg · #15 07-07-2005, 05:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I limp there or make a 6-7xBB bet, nothing inbetween.

if you learned to play after the flop you wouldnt need this policy. bye.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like this policy with all hands from the SB / BB. Do you really want to play a large multi-way pot w/ JJ OOP? That's like telling people to take your stack and put you in tough situations.

I see nothing wrong w/ limping there if you're uncomfortable in that spot. If you do flop a set, you'll have a nice hidden monster as well.

If your game is designed on bloating pots out of position and putting yourself in awkward spots, then go ahead and put in a nice pot-building raise there.

DeezNuts · #16 07-07-2005, 05:53 PM

Does anything change with TT(5th nuts)? What about 99(6th nuts)? At some point you have to be playing to hit a set in a pot vs. 5 other players. I'm not really sure what the reasoning is to make it $40 in a pot that is already $60, but am interested in hearing the logic behind it. I would think a raise to $80 would be more prudent.

At some point in a limit game unless it's heads up or 3 handed-max(w/ no reads), I am going to stop putting money into the pot pre-flop with JJ way out of position in the SB.

DN

amoeba · #17 07-07-2005, 06:05 PM

why do you assume all 5 players will call your preflop raise?

what monsters are they also limping with that you are playing JJ for only set value?

gomberg · #18 07-07-2005, 06:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
why do you assume all 5 players will call your preflop raise?

what monsters are they also limping with that you are playing JJ for only set value?

[/ QUOTE ]

He's talking about a small raise here to $40. If he does that, almost all the other players (correctly) should call given the nice pot odds and position on the raiser.

Raise to $80 and you may get 1 caller or may win the pot right there. This would be nice - hence would be my more standard play (i'll also call here maybe 20% of the time). If you take down a $60 pot uncontested, what a great result. Your EV on a hand like JJ can't be much more than 2 big blinds, so taking down 6 would be a great result.

amoeba · #19 07-07-2005, 06:16 PM

I agree.

raise to 80.

raise to 40 would be worse than limping.

The problem with limping is that if you flop overpair, you have a tough time knowing where you are. if you flop the set, people with top pair probably won't go very far with it due to it being a multiway pot and their kicker likely not that great. you'll make a lot off set vs set but you would have made alot off set vs set anyways had you raised preflop as mid pocket pairs would have called.

Rotating Rabbit · #20 07-07-2005, 06:54 PM

A simple fact that it appears people sometimes overlook is that if the pot is four times bigger going into the flop then the river bets will be four times as big. Its obvious yet seemingly not so. I raise 88 preflop with set value in mind in this spot for example. The decent % of the time you get an unfavourable flop and lose the pfr+continuation (and feel like perhaps its a mistake) is outweighed by the greater potential turn and river action when you do hit.