Good spot to wait for the turn?

[deception5]

Second hand at the table.

PokerStars 5/10 Hold'em (6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, MP calls, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, MP folds, CO calls.

Flop: (13.40 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG calls, CO calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (8.70 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG calls, CO calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets (All-In)</font>, UTG folds, CO calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, CO calls $4 (All-In).

River: (20.10 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: 20.10 BB

Would you have capped if BB wasn't all-in? I assume you're trying to extract more from CO.

In waiting for the turn, you're hoping your equity jumps way up. I don't see that happening here. Without reads, I hate this hand. I hate situations like this and probably suck at them.

I'm looking forward to seeing what people say.

[jba]

[ QUOTE ]

In waiting for the turn, you're hoping your equity jumps way up. I don't see that happening here. Without reads, I hate this hand. I hate situations like this and probably suck at them.

[/ QUOTE ]

hey PP I know we have been disagreeing a lot in these early days of SHSSSSH, and I've been drinking, but I can't think of many better situations in poker than to have JJ on an 8-high board on the turn against a couple of doofy [censored] that can't even keep a proper buyin.

a blank turn in a situation like this makes our equity go through the roof. a flush draw goes from having 35% on the flop to 18% on the turn. overcards from 23-&gt;12. all of this equity that drops lands in our lap. this situation is pretty much ideal and the cappage is a no-brainer (did you notice CO is about all-in too?)

[MrWookie47]

This is a decent spot. That four isn't the best card for you, but it's not the worst. Considering that these guys are stacking off, you're turn play is probably fine.

[hiflyer51]

You need to raise the flop and charge these players while you probably have the best hand. There are a lot of cards that come on the turn that you may not like - hearts, A,K,Q and the board pairing.

[yellowjack]

[ QUOTE ]
You need to raise the flop and charge these players while you probably have the best hand. There are a lot of cards that come on the turn that you may not like - hearts, A,K,Q and the board pairing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think we're waiting for the turn card because our equity changes quite a bit (in comparison to most hands) from flop --&gt; turn. We're giving up a small edge now to exploit a bigger edge later. Consequently, if there is a bad turn card and two bets to us we can easily fold.

Ref. from HPFAP "Two Overpair Hands"

[Redd]

Meh, I'd rather just raise the flop here.

1) Our equity edge isn't going to change as much as other examples of this play because there's not as many scary cards that can come on the turn.

2) Our Villain is unknown. We can't be positive he'll lead again into this size field. When he doesn't, we lose like 2.something SBs of beautiful beautiful EV.

3) Everyone else is unknown. I'd assume that at least one of those guys is a peels flop, folds turn type until proven otherwise. Might as well get the value in until we have some more reads.

[Raza]

I did a quick pokerstove simulation with somewhat generous hands for the opponents 6h7h for BB, 3s5s for UTG, Ad9d for CO.

9,885,332 games 12.063 secs 819,475 games/sec

Board: 9h 2h 4s
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) / tie (%)

Hand 1: 33.7500 % [ 00.34 00.00 ] { 7h6h }
Hand 2: 20.3668 % [ 00.20 00.00 ] { 5s3s }
Hand 3: 06.7174 % [ 00.07 00.00 ] { Ad9d }
Hand 4: 39.1658 % [ 00.39 00.00 ] { JsJh }


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Here you have 39% equity while putting in 25% of the money if you raise the flop and get everyone to call. I think this is a decent edge, and it could be a lot higher when instead of flush draws and straight draws your opponents have 5 outers with bottom/middle pair. I'm leaning towards raising this flop. What do you guys think?

[jba]

[ QUOTE ]
I did a quick pokerstove simulation with somewhat generous hands for the opponents 6h7h for BB, 3s5s for UTG, Ad9d for CO.

9,885,332 games 12.063 secs 819,475 games/sec

Board: 9h 2h 4s
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) / tie (%)

Hand 1: 33.7500 % [ 00.34 00.00 ] { 7h6h }
Hand 2: 20.3668 % [ 00.20 00.00 ] { 5s3s }
Hand 3: 06.7174 % [ 00.07 00.00 ] { Ad9d }
Hand 4: 39.1658 % [ 00.39 00.00 ] { JsJh }


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Here you have 39% equity while putting in 25% of the money if you raise the flop and get everyone to call. I think this is a decent edge, and it could be a lot higher when instead of flush draws and straight draws your opponents have 5 outers with bottom/middle pair. I'm leaning towards raising this flop. What do you guys think?

[/ QUOTE ]

i think this is a good start to a great analysis

if we wait until the turn we pass on the oppurtunity to buy 39% of four bets for the price of one bet so with this range we lose .56 sbs on the flop.

what you haven't analyzed is how much we gain if the turn bricks and we raise at that point.

[deepsquat]

With the Jh im raising the flop