From SS...I want micro views.

#1 12-04-2005, 10:30 PM

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 raises, MP1 calls, 2 folds, CO calls, Button calls, Hero calls, BB calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, UTG+1 raises, MP1 calls, CO calls, Button folds, Hero calls, BB calls.

Turn: (11 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG+1 bets, MP1 folds, CO calls, Hero calls, BB calls.

River: (15 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets,

Every street is worth commenting on.

Eeegah · #2 12-04-2005, 10:39 PM

I need reads. Is CO a decent player? If he is I don't see him having less than AJs here.

I don't see what you're accomplishing with the river bet, but I suspect you're being purposely cryptic about it. You ain't bluffing UTG+1 off a better hand, and If you're so sure UTG+1 has AK/AQ, why not just call the river?

#3 12-04-2005, 10:42 PM

First off, wow, I need to find tables like that more often.

I'm not sure about the preflop call. But with three cold calling the raise, I probably complete.

I probably lead out the flop. I would probably check/raise if UTG+1 bet and it came back to me, but I just call when it comes back for 2. 3-betting won't knock anyone out, only BB would have to think about it.

Turn is fine given the flop.

River donk is fun, since it keeps AK/AQ type hands from checking and CO is going to check this river. If you get raised, well, you're probably done for, but it's an okay call.

#4 12-04-2005, 10:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 raises, MP1 calls, 2 folds, CO calls, Button calls, Hero calls, BB calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, UTG+1 raises, MP1 calls, CO calls, Button folds, Hero calls, BB calls.

Turn: (11 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG+1 bets, MP1 folds, CO calls, Hero calls, BB calls.

River: (15 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets,

Every street is worth commenting on.

[/ QUOTE ]

Any reads on UTG+1?

Preflop - no issues, a call is fine.

Flop - I might be tempted to bet into this, hoping that UTG+1 would raise with overcards to help thin the field. With the way it was played, I t hink you are behind - AA, KK, QQ, JJ, and AJ ... since there are no reads on UTG+1 it's hard to put him on a range of hands when raising from EP.

Given the flop check, I might take the lead with a 3-bet and hope UTG+1 was raising with overcards.

From that point on the hand would play itself a little easier ... if UTG+1 4-bet the flop, I might check-call to a showdown UI assuming none of the cold callers wake up. If UTG+1 called the flop-raise and raised my turn bet .... I'm not sure what I would do but I would lean towards a fold ... if everyone was around for the call, I would probably donate since the pot is so huge (and we have no reads).

Is there something special with the river donk-bet that I'm missing?

#5 12-04-2005, 11:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I need reads.

[/ QUOTE ]

Table o' Fish.

SlantNGo · #6 12-04-2005, 11:08 PM

Pre-flop is goot. I'm betting this flop no matter what. Ideally, if UTG+1 is aggressive, he can raise with overcards to blow away 3 behind him. If UTG+1 is passive, the bet is for value & information. If he doesn't raise, we have the best hand here the majority of the time, and we should play it as such. If he does raise, we play it as a drawing hand (folding to a river bet).

#7 12-04-2005, 11:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Pre-flop is goot. I'm betting this flop no matter what. Ideally, if UTG+1 is aggressive, he can raise with overcards to blow away 3 behind him. If UTG+1 is passive, the bet is for value & information. If he doesn't raise, we have the best hand here the majority of the time, and we should play it as such. If he does raise, we play it as a drawing hand (folding to a river bet).

[/ QUOTE ]

Assuming that the river is all undercards & no one else wakes up ... I would be hard pressed to fold since the pot would be pretty sweet. With no reads (other than table o' fish) I see a SD & hope he shows me TT or overcards.

Shillx · #8 12-04-2005, 11:22 PM

Was this a hand you played or was it an SS post that you found interesting?

Preflop/flop/turn all look fine. The river bet is meh and something I wouldn't do, but it isn't really a bad thing. The only thing checking does is give you a chance to get away from the hand should someone else wake up. If you plan on calling a bet, a bet can never really be too bad in this type of spot. The PFR has no idea that we just have KJ, but something like AA certainly can't raise on this river the way it has played out. He would truly need a monster to raise in this spot (assuming that we are a typical player) because it is so often 2 crap pair or a rivered gutterball.

#9 12-04-2005, 11:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Was this a hand you played or was it an SS post that you found interesting?

Preflop/flop/turn all look fine. The river bet is meh and something I wouldn't do, but it isn't really a bad thing. The only thing checking does is give you a chance to get away from the hand should someone else wake up. If you plan on calling a bet, a bet can never really be too bad in this type of spot. The PFR has no idea that we just have KJ, but something like AA certainly can't raise on this river the way it has played out. He would truly need a monster to raise in this spot (assuming that we are a typical player) because it is so often 2 crap pair or a rivered gutterball.

[/ QUOTE ]

It was a post I found interesting...the advice was all the same and I didn't agree with it....I'll put my views up after a few more responses.

#10 12-05-2005, 12:03 AM

Fold the flop or three bet it. I definately fold, but given your reads maybe you 3 bet. If he peels but calls the turn we're probably in trouble. If the plan is bet/fold the river, which it should be based on the way you played it, a check fold on the river after 3 betting the flop is not outlandish and saves us a big bet. I don't think this hand is strong enough to want a showdown if UTG + 1 gets past the turn. If we 3 bet and are dealing with AK we no longer have to worry about the BB drawing to whatever outs he has. How many players can successfully bluff AK on this river after a flop that was 3 bet? Probably not many. Bottom line - I want BB off his hand if I continue past the flop. I also wouldn't hate a bet / fold on the river if you're suspicious of AK, but only after a flop that was 3 bet. If BB calls a 3 bet a check fold is easy on the turn and we save money.