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#151
05-06-2005, 04:35 PM
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Re: Futurama shows how I see religion
[ QUOTE ]
For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, " Abba! Father!" [/ QUOTE ] touche' 
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#155
05-07-2005, 05:40 AM
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Re: Pascal\'s Wager...
[ QUOTE ]
I don't deny that violence has been committed in the name of Christianity, and virtually without exception it has been in violation of Scripture. Christians are sinners too. But if your mind was truly open to reality you would realize that more violence has been committed by non-Christians than Christians by an astronomical factor. Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and Hussein, for instance. Only Hitler showed any inclination towards some religious belief, but whatever he believed it bore no resemblence to Christianity. Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot were obvious atheists, and Hussein is a nominal Muslim, but I don't think Islam can be charged with his atrocities. Humanity is violent. If religion disappeared tomorrow, by Monday the human race might likely have disappeared as well. Atheism is the truly irrational, for how can you pretend to rationality when you think the universe itself is irrational? [/ QUOTE ] Sorry, the amount of death, destruction, hatred, genocide, and naked powerlust propogated by the religions of the world far exceeds those of atheists. More importantly, the sprinkling of "atheists" you offered were simply madmen. They were not interested in atheism as such, they were simply interested in power, much like their religious counterparts. And you don't seriously think that Saddam Hussein did not believe in God, do you? "Humanity is violent" is a true observation. And I think the main reason for that is religious people trying to destroy other religious people because they don't believe the same way. Christians are among the worst offenders because they actively seek to export their irrationality to all regions of the globe. To "spread the word" so to speak. I mean, these are people who actually believed God would spare their children if they spearheaded them into battle. But no, the little children were chopped up into hamburger meat, as any atheist would have effortlessly predicted based on the laws of physics. And no atheist I know believes the universe is irrational. Rationality pertains to the human mind and its logical functioning. The concept of rationality does not apply to the universe. Atheists are concerned with learning about the universe, not postulating phony Gods to provide excuses for the murder and destruction of those who don't toe the line. The Bible is garbage. Scripture is garbage. The Pope is garbage. We need to move away from this and we will. Unfortunately not for several thousand years, but it will happen.
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#156
05-07-2005, 06:11 AM
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Re: Futurama shows how I see religion
[ QUOTE ]
Have you really used your mind when you base all your hatred of religion on experiences you had with one form of one religion when you were in elementary school? [/ QUOTE ] I don't hate religions, religious people or even that school, but I still firmly believe that I don't want to worship a deity that doesn't want me to critcally think or ask questions that deviate from what I'm told. Accepting what I'm told as absolute truth scares me a little, if that's a problem, I guess I'll burn. [ QUOTE ] Are you really using your mind when you claim this kind of omniscience? [/ QUOTE ] I think the only people that really know what death is like are all dead, and they havn't said anything to me lately. [ QUOTE ] I feel atheism is a crutch for people afraid of the afterlife to make them feel they are good people. After all, if our "weak, feeble minds" are incapable of grasping God, why wouldn't we need His crutch? [/ QUOTE ] You're probably right, most people use their beliefs as crutches to help them through their life, on both sides. We can understand God, we have a nice thick book about it. All I'm saying is that I don't really think that we can comprehend ultimate power and what the afterlife is really like. All that we can really speculate is compared to our experiance on earth, and if the afterlife is much more than that I have a hard time believing that we can grasp it. You don't know what a strong acid trip is like until you've done it. You don't know what an orgasm is like until you've had one. You don't know what the afterlife is unless you are indeed after life. Or can you? I feel like the modern concept of God is a great simplification of what might really be. I mean, the greeks and romans believed in hundreds of gods to explain each little thing that they didn't really know about. We look back and laugh, in a few thousand years, what are we going to be saying about the religions we have now? There is nothing wrong with religion, it helps alot of people live there life. No need to get all defensive when others don't believe. It's ok that I don't adhear to a formal religion, it's ok that you do.
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#157
05-07-2005, 10:27 AM
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Re: Pascal\'s Wager...
[ QUOTE ]
More importantly, the sprinkling of "atheists" you offered were simply madmen. [/ QUOTE ] But they were non-Christians and madmen. Therefore all non-Christians are madmen. By your own logic. Since you think all Christians are the same. Or are you preaching a double standard? [ QUOTE ] And no atheist I know believes the universe is irrational. Rationality pertains to the human mind and its logical functioning. The concept of rationality does not apply to the universe. [/ QUOTE ] It's easy to prove your case when you define the terms and set the parameters. I could just say morality doesn't apply to Christians, therefore no Christians are immoral. You also contradict yourself within the space of two sentences. Why should anyone care whether the universe is irrational if rationalilty doesn't apply to the universe. You are just throwing whatever you can find at the wall and hoping it will stick. Try the kitchen sink, that would be as rational as anything else you've said. [ QUOTE ] Atheists are concerned with learning about the universe, not postulating phony Gods to provide excuses for the murder and destruction of those who don't toe the line. [/ QUOTE ] I repeat: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Hussein. [ QUOTE ] The Bible is garbage. Scripture is garbage. The Pope is garbage. [/ QUOTE ] How can I compete with such incisive logic and deep, penetrating insight?
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#158
05-07-2005, 10:43 AM
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Re: Futurama shows how I see religion
[ QUOTE ]
but I still firmly believe that I don't want to worship a deity that doesn't want me to critcally think or ask questions that deviate from what I'm told. [/ QUOTE ] Neither do I. [ QUOTE ] Accepting what I'm told as absolute truth scares me a little, if that's a problem, I guess I'll burn. [/ QUOTE ] What if it is absolute truth? [ QUOTE ] You don't know what the afterlife is unless you are indeed after life. Or can you? [/ QUOTE ] Not in every detail, but there is an analogy to experiences you have had, and even if not, you have experienced joy and you know what feeling good means. [ QUOTE ] I mean, the greeks and romans believed in hundreds of gods to explain each little thing that they didn't really know about. We look back and laugh, in a few thousand years, what are we going to be saying about the religions we have now? [/ QUOTE ] Abraham believed in the one God Jehovah long before Homer was born. And of course, if there's no afterlife, in a few thousand years you and I won't be saying anything. [ QUOTE ] No need to get all defensive when others don't believe [/ QUOTE ] I'm not defenseive about your unbelief. I defend what I believe when it's attacked.
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#159
05-07-2005, 01:50 PM
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Re: Pascal\'s Wager...
[ QUOTE ]
But they were non-Christians and madmen. Therefore all non-Christians are madmen. By your own logic. Since you think all Christians are the same. Or are you preaching a double standard? [/ QUOTE ] Single standard. All Christians are irrational. Some overcome the comparmentalized irrationality of their religions to become good people. But that is in spite of, not because of, their irrational beliefs. [ QUOTE ] It's easy to prove your case when you define the terms and set the parameters. [/ QUOTE ] I didn't define or set anything. I am using standard dictionary definitions. Rationality is "having or exercising the ability to reason". Only man has this ability. The universe does not. The term "irrational universe" is a non-sequitir. [ QUOTE ] I could just say morality doesn't apply to Christians, therefore no Christians are immoral. You also contradict yourself within the space of two sentences. Why should anyone care whether the universe is irrational if rationalilty doesn't apply to the universe. [/ QUOTE ] See definition above. You're very sloppy with your use of language. Again, the universe is not rational or irrational, since those terms do not apply to the physical world. They only apply to human beings. [ QUOTE ] I repeat: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Hussein. [/ QUOTE ] Your laundry list of atheists has no bearing on the argument. And besides, 2 of them believed in God. Further, the character defect of powerlust is unrelated to religious belief. Any human can fall prey to this. Now go and pray that you flop many sets. You obviously would need divine help to win at poker.
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#160
05-07-2005, 02:34 PM
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Re: Pascal\'s Wager...
[ QUOTE ]
I didn't define or set anything. I am using standard dictionary definitions. Rationality is "having or exercising the ability to reason". Only man has this ability. The universe does not. The term "irrational universe" is a non-sequitir. [/ QUOTE ] Not according to the dictionary, see definition 3. [ QUOTE ] ) rational. The American HeritageŽ Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition. 2000. ...Having or exercising the ability to reason. 2. Of sound mind; sane. 3. Consistent with or based on reason; logical: rational behavior. 1) rationality. The American HeritageŽ Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition. 2000. ...The quality or condition of being rational. 2. A rational belief or practice.... [/ QUOTE ] If the universe is not "Consistent with or based on reason" it is not rational, i.e., irrational. Again, all atheists are irrational because they believe the universe is not based on rationality. It just popped up out of nothing for NO REASON. [ QUOTE ] Your laundry list of atheists has no bearing on the argument. And besides, 2 of them believed in God. Further, the character defect of powerlust is unrelated to religious belief. Any human can fall prey to this. [/ QUOTE ] You contradict yourself again. if "the character defect of powerlust is unrelated to religious belief" then why do you say "Christians are among the worst offenders "? [ QUOTE ] Now go and pray that you flop many sets. You obviously would need divine hel [/ QUOTE ] Amen, brother!
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