Why there will never be a rake war (longwinded)

[Matt Flynn]

Most customers are indifferent to rake.

[SomethingClever]

I agree that most customers being ignorant of the rake factor is critical, but even a soft, soft game will eventually become unbeatable due to the high rake, and at that pointm even the TAGs won't play there.

And the fish will start noticing at a certain point.

Also, one thing you're ignoring is the possibilty of online poker becoming legal in the US, at which point the competition will get INSANE. Maybe it won't lead to a "rake war" per se, but it could lead to some sweet "bonus wars," which would have about the same effect.

[lefty rosen]

There is also implicit collusion between the sites. Ie Pacific copying every party bonehead/greedy increase and Pokerroom just thinking all of the players are drunk retards that want to play any two........

[Sniper]

There already is a rake war going on!!!...right under our noses, but as you correctly point out, most players are oblivious to it!

The war is for knowledgable & high volume players... with the incentives being refunds of their rake via rakeback, bonus, vip/point programs, and other incentives.

Party and Ultimate's recent actions only highlight some of the recent skirmishes in this War!

Neteller, has proudly proclaimed that this war is of great benefit to them, as players are shifting more $$$ around from site to site chasing these opportunities, which substantially increases Neteller's revenue stream.

A recent Citigroup Global Markets analyst report asks this question... "How bad is it if you run out of Plankton?... To continue the fishy metaphor — it is bad news if you are a whale and you run out of plankton. The bear case on PartyGaming is that the business model is based on very active successful players feeding off what we have termed Plankton and that the supply of Plankton is limited. The risk under this scenario is that the poker industry runs out of people who to try poker, lose a little, get bored and stop. Similarly the players we have termed ‘Fish’ may have an interest in playing for only a limited time. PartyGaming has an additional problem in that there are many aggressive competitors for the supply of such players and that it is a challenge to maintain market share."

The war is on... the poker room winners will be those who have reduced the true net effect of rake to the knowledgable high volume players (those players that will still be around when the plankton run dry).

[Exsubmariner]

I honestly don't get your reasoning here, sniper.

What Potty and UB did recently was NOT good for volume players. I got bit by both. What the hell are you going to do? Go pay rake at Poker Stars because they are so aloof that they have never involved themselves with networks or affiliates and therefore smell like roses?

Come on. It's obviously in the interests of sites to take as much from volume players as they possibly can. That's why they keep trying.

I think Greg is right. The long dreampt of rake war will never come. If anything it will get worse before it gets better and the only way it gets better is if (and its a big IF) online poker has another boom.

The only thing I see happening is there are fewer and fewer sites around squeezing as hard as they can. Please tell me more about your thinking.

X

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
What Potty and UB did recently was NOT good for volume players. I got bit by both.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is exactly my point.... Party and UB were getting destroyed by Empire and Pokershare, so Party and UB nuked them into oblivion.

Empire and Pokershare were rewarding knowledgable high volume players with better rewards (ie lower net rake), the larger rooms threatened by this had to act, and acted swiftly and decisively!

Unfortunately for Party (the market leader with 50% share), they can't use the same tactics against Absolute, Prima and Crypto. [This is good for the players]

Should Party buyout Empire AND replace their own marketing dept with Empire's, watch out as they will then have the knowledge to really damage the other rooms, and shorten the war (short term good for players, long term probably not).

[Exsubmariner]

I doubt Potty is smart enough to fire their marketing dept and replace it with Empires. The only reason Potty would buy Empire would be to suck up their player base and keep the profits. They would prolly fire everybody from the company they didn't think they needed. I imagine this would include the marketing group. After all, wasn't their marketing team the one that came up with the cruise?

I see Pokershare or something like it re-emerging with it's own platform. Now, if they hired Empire's marketing team........

[mbpoker]

Both Empire and PokerShare were parasites on their hosts. They didn't spend millions in TV advertising or other real marketing to attract recreational players. Their strategy will not work if they get their own real platforms.

[grinin]

[ QUOTE ]
Should Party buyout Empire AND replace their own marketing dept with Empire's, watch out as they will then have the knowledge to really damage the other rooms

[/ QUOTE ]

Could you please explain the above quote?
Me thinks Empire's marketing department sucks donkey balls and don't understand how anyone could come to such a conclusion. Maybe you mean some other department?

[Harv72b]

[ QUOTE ]
Me thinks Empire's marketing department sucks donkey balls and don't understand how anyone could come to such a conclusion. Maybe you mean some other department?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think Empire's marketing department did an outstanding job. Their Royal Flush club is a great way to reward (and therefore keep) loyal high volume players, and they have some of the best stuff to purchase with their FPPs of any site I've played on. Far better than Party's selection, anyway.

I finally cleaned out my Empire account last week because it was just too difficult to find decent games there anymore, and I'll admit that it saddened me to do so. I have nothing but fond memories of my time there.