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View Poll Results: What hands win big pots?
others (J4 os) 2 7.41%
one/two-gappers (like 86os) 0 0%
suited connectors 6 22.22%
big hands (QQ/AK-type) 12 44.44%
small pairs 7 25.93%
Voters: 27. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 12-27-2005, 12:41 AM
Texas Pete Texas Pete is offline
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Default pushing in the orange zone (PP$150)

Background reading is this thread in the STT forum, with lively debate on pushing near the top of the orange zone.

So... there I was... and I pushed...
(Special bonus: Ka52_Hokum previously called an allin with A5os. But I would have pushed anyway had this not been the case.)

My question: kosher for MTT as well?

Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 7: hero ( $2107 )
Seat 2: Ka52_Hokum ( $5624 )
Seat 9: congo2 ( $5609 )
Seat 4: jonthegreek3 ( $10265 )
Seat 6: Twenty5Cent ( $6621 )
Seat 3: azazel2177 ( $1125 )
Seat 5: chinxu ( $1722 )
Seat 8: themanAA420 ( $4982 )
Seat 1: TheMaster891 ( $3138 )
Seat 10: coimbra ( $2783 )
Trny:18627177 Level:6
Blinds (75/150)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to hero [ Jh Ah ]
jonthegreek3 folds.
chinxu folds.
Twenty5Cent folds.
kookymangas is all-In [2107].......
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  #2  
Old 12-27-2005, 12:58 AM
Lloyd Lloyd is offline
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Default Re: pushing in the orange zone (PP$150)

I would most definitely not be pushing there as you are only called with hands you are behind/dominated by.
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  #3  
Old 12-27-2005, 01:01 AM
Texas Pete Texas Pete is offline
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Default Re: pushing in the orange zone (PP$150)

Therefore you disagree with the logic behind a push in the STT scenario/thread as well?
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  #4  
Old 12-27-2005, 01:10 AM
ononimo ononimo is offline
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Default Re: pushing in the orange zone (PP$150)

[ QUOTE ]
I would most definitely not be pushing there as you are only called with hands you are behind/dominated by.

[/ QUOTE ]

i've come to believe this thinking is wrong as i've frequently had my AK-AJ pushes called by AT and worse, depending on their stack sizes, and he's got a fighting chance against most pocket pairs ...

if he raises to 3BB, he's pretty close to pot committed anyway and/or will definitely be all-in on his next hand. folding is clearly not a realistic option given the blinds.

i like the push.
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  #5  
Old 12-27-2005, 01:14 AM
Lloyd Lloyd is offline
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Default Re: pushing in the orange zone (PP$150)

I don't see how you can compare the two. In the STT example, the hero has AQ on the button in a 5-handed game. Here the hero has AJ in MP in a 10-handed game. Very different scenarios. I'm not sure if I'd push in the STT either but it's a much closer decision.
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  #6  
Old 12-27-2005, 01:28 AM
ononimo ononimo is offline
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Default Re: pushing in the orange zone (PP$150)

since, no one has chosen "fold" yet, can those who advocate the "~3 BB raise" option comment on what they'd do if they got re-raised pre-flop?
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  #7  
Old 12-27-2005, 01:48 AM
Texas Pete Texas Pete is offline
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Default Re: pushing in the orange zone (PP$150)

Just did some math, pushing is +CEV
assuming you only get called when behind (22+, AQo+) by anyone behind you,

(1) everyone folds 63.3% * (2107 + 225) = 1476
(2) one caller 36.7%
(a) win 42% = "4214" (ignoring the blinds for now)
(b) lose 58% = 0
================
650

Total is 2126 > 2107 for folding. But remember, I haven't included the blinds in pot if hero gets called, so it's definitely +CEV relative to folding.
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  #8  
Old 12-27-2005, 01:53 AM
Texas Pete Texas Pete is offline
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Default Re: pushing in the orange zone (PP$150)

Throw in some bad calls, then hero is really making money.
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  #9  
Old 12-27-2005, 01:58 AM
Texas Pete Texas Pete is offline
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Default Re: pushing in the orange zone (PP$150)

By the way, my boy called with 88 and I lost. Doesn't that suck?
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  #10  
Old 12-27-2005, 04:41 AM
good2cu good2cu is offline
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Default Re: pushing in the orange zone (PP$150)

Well over on the SNGPT forum, we have this nifty little calcatour that can tell us weather to push or fold depending on our oppents calling range. It's not that easy in multis, due to many more factors that come into effect, including 50+ people getting paid out (very top heavily)instead of jsut 3.
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