it's time for a ..... misplayed on every street? post

DeeJ · #1 09-23-2005, 05:42 PM

Villains here are both decent.

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. MP2 posts a blind of $15.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 (poster) checks, 3 folds, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds, MP1 raises, MP2 folds, Hero calls, BB calls, UTG+1 3-bets, MP1 calls, Hero calls, BB calls.

Turn: (9 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls, BB folds, UTG+1 calls.

River: (12 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 raises, MP1 folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 16 BB

CardSharpCook · #2 09-23-2005, 05:49 PM

Naw, you got the the PF right. And the turn.

I think we can fold Flop as we are drawing to a not-nuts split-pot obvious hand with little implied value. Sure, I'll call a single bet with it, but I draw the line at 2bets (and I often fold the turn UI (pot dependant)) As for the river, I like check/calling. First, it is very likely that another Jack will bet for you and second, it is also likely that a flush will bet. OTOH, you're not getting many calls when the river just completed two obvious draws.

I dunno, maybe I'm leaving some BBs on the table with this line, but it sure does keep me out of situations like this. Good for the variance.

CSC

andyfox · #3 09-23-2005, 05:49 PM

Pre-flop I fold. Yeah, one chip, shmun chip, with J-2 I feel like I can win a small pot or lose a large one.

On the flop, I fold for two bets. Someone might already have a straight, there's a flush draw on board, it can get 3-bet behind me, it can be expensive on the turn, I might not be the only one with a jack, etc.

flawless_victory · #4 09-23-2005, 05:50 PM

well PF and turn are fine...
flop and river look like folds.

flawless_victory · #5 09-23-2005, 05:51 PM

jeez you guys are quick...

CardSharpCook · #6 09-23-2005, 05:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
well PF and turn are fine...
flop and river look like folds.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? You fold the river with about 16BBs in the middle? You don't think that 1/8 times he's raising a jack or that 1/16 times he's just donking it with whatever?

flawless_victory · #7 09-23-2005, 05:59 PM

right.

DeeJ · #8 09-23-2005, 06:05 PM

thanks guys. PF, the BB can raise behind and I'm left a little short of EV. But 80% of the time he probably won't.

Flop yeah I shoulda folded it. But I thought that there would be so many hands staying in like KQ, TT, gutshot draws, I could make up if I hit. That's rubbish cuz even tho I'm open ended my outs can be tainted. With 4 players in when I'm faced with 2 cold for 10 SB. Getting 5:1 assuming my 8 outs are good is not too bad, but with UTG+1 calling he could have a Jack, split pot etc there could be flush draws yada yada it becomes ugly. so probably (on reflection only something like 6 outs.

turn blank is an easier call, but I feared the UTG+1 checkraise behind me (he'd called-limp-reraised the flop) if he had J9 or AJ.

river I should have folded. who is bluff raising here? nobody. I clearly suck at this point. [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

Pog0 · #9 09-23-2005, 06:37 PM

You'd have to think that if villian is decent and if he only had a J, he would just call on the river and look for overcalls since that (or the flush) are your most probably holdings.

Tough to fold in a big pot like that after calling down on a draw and completing(ish) that draw on the river.

Nightwish · #10 09-23-2005, 09:18 PM

Preflop is fine.

Flop is an easy fold because of everything that Andy said.

Turn is fine.

The river is a little interesting. Notice how UTG+1 played his hand. He limp-3bet the flop, but then check-called the turn. This sort of play from a sane player typically means a flush draw. Therefore, that heart on the river means trouble for you. I'd be much more inclined to check-call instead of betting out.