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  #21  
Old 12-29-2005, 06:03 PM
yvesaint yvesaint is offline
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Default Re: Playing from the blinds: 9Ts

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True - but conversely you're laying out better odds for him to call with.

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yeah, but the only hands that he has you crushed with is a set/2-pair
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  #22  
Old 12-29-2005, 06:04 PM
Pasterbator Pasterbator is offline
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Default Re: Playing from the blinds: 9Ts

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[ QUOTE ]

True - but conversely you're laying out better odds for him to call with.

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yeah, but the only hands that he has you crushed with is a set/2-pair

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Thats basically my point. A call is not the worst thing in the world.
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  #23  
Old 12-29-2005, 06:05 PM
Snarf Snarf is offline
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Default Re: Playing from the blinds: 9Ts

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

True - but conversely you're laying out better odds for him to call with.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, but the only hands that he has you crushed with is a set/2-pair

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I think this is one of those conversations where we actually pretty much agree with each other, but yet we still go back and forth...

[img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]
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  #24  
Old 12-29-2005, 06:07 PM
Scuba Chuck Scuba Chuck is offline
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Default Re: Villain\'s Hand

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I think the main difference is pot to stack ratios in each hand. In the above hand you will more often only be called by hands where your K and Q are no good. In the first hand there is "enough" to warrant taking that risk. I'm not saying that the above hand isnt a good CR AI, just maybe less so.

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Why do you say that? I understand what you mean, but why aren't the same possible hand combos in either case?
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  #25  
Old 12-29-2005, 06:36 PM
pooh74 pooh74 is offline
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Default Re: Villain\'s Hand

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[ QUOTE ]


I think the main difference is pot to stack ratios in each hand. In the above hand you will more often only be called by hands where your K and Q are no good. In the first hand there is "enough" to warrant taking that risk. I'm not saying that the above hand isnt a good CR AI, just maybe less so.

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Why do you say that? I understand what you mean, but why aren't the same possible hand combos in either case?

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I think a part of the value in the second hand is having 1 pair type hands call where your other outs are good...if they call less frequently then your push is losing value. In the original hand, youll get calls from hands like TP where you have outs besides the flush...you're getting calls more frequently because of the chips in the pot.

Just ignore me if this isnt making any sense...I have a head cold.
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  #26  
Old 12-29-2005, 06:42 PM
Scuba Chuck Scuba Chuck is offline
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Default Re: Villain\'s Hand

[ QUOTE ]
In the original hand, youll get calls from hands like TP where you have outs besides the flush...you're getting calls more frequently because of the chips in the pot.


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Are you referring to the backdoor straight? Also, are you referring to the 2 9s that beat 2 pair? I see far more similarities to these hands than differences, in terms of pot equity.
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  #27  
Old 12-29-2005, 06:45 PM
pooh74 pooh74 is offline
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Default Re: Villain\'s Hand

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In the original hand, youll get calls from hands like TP where you have outs besides the flush...you're getting calls more frequently because of the chips in the pot.


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Are you referring to the backdoor straight? Also, are you referring to the 2 9s that beat 2 pair? I see far more similarities to these hands than differences, in terms of pot equity.

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yes I am referring to those outs...and they are obviously similar...the only difference I was pointing out, and its not so important, is that pushing the KQ hand is more of an overbet if you will, and wins more tiny pots and loses more big ones than hand 1...that is all I was saying.
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  #28  
Old 12-29-2005, 06:48 PM
Scuba Chuck Scuba Chuck is offline
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Default Re: Villain\'s Hand

[ QUOTE ]

yes I am referring to those outs...and they are obviously similar...the only difference I was pointing out, and its not so important, is that pushing the KQ hand is more of an overbet if you will, and wins more tiny pots and loses more big ones than hand 1...that is all I was saying.

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I'm not trying to quarrel, I'm more trying to understand.

I don't understand your reference to small and big pots. Again, with regards to chips in the middle, once I moved allin, the pots were again, similar.
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  #29  
Old 12-29-2005, 06:57 PM
pooh74 pooh74 is offline
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Default Re: Villain\'s Hand

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

yes I am referring to those outs...and they are obviously similar...the only difference I was pointing out, and its not so important, is that pushing the KQ hand is more of an overbet if you will, and wins more tiny pots and loses more big ones than hand 1...that is all I was saying.

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I'm not trying to quarrel, I'm more trying to understand.

I don't understand your reference to small and big pots. Again, with regards to chips in the middle, once I moved allin, the pots were again, similar.

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I didnt think you were trying to quarrel...any tone I exhibit is frustration with myself.

I was just seeing it as the overall EV of the hand and an opponent's tendency to call with lesser holdings...in hand 1, with more in the pot relative to what villain has to call, youll get calls from worse hands...in hand 2, you'll get less frequent calls by hands that you are ahead of. therefore you stand to profit more in the long run in hand 1?
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  #30  
Old 12-29-2005, 07:08 PM
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Default Re: Villain\'s Hand

Since I love to nitpick...we're also dogs vs.:

T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
etc.
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