tricky turn card

#1 10-08-2005, 01:53 AM

what's the correct play with this turn card?

Party Poker 30/60 Hold'em (7 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, 1 fold, CO 3-bets, 2 folds, BB calls, Hero caps, CO calls, BB calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, CO raises, BB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (8.25 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)

Pepsquad · #2 10-08-2005, 02:01 AM

I c/r - fold to 3-bet and check-call the river against typical opponents.

ihardlyknowher · #3 10-08-2005, 02:19 AM

[ QUOTE ]
what's the correct play with this turn card?

Party Poker 30/60 Hold'em (7 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, 1 fold, CO 3-bets, 2 folds, BB calls, Hero caps, CO calls, BB calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, CO raises, BB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (8.25 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)

[/ QUOTE ]

At this point I think you are either WA or WB. I like check-call, check-call.

flawless_victory · #4 10-08-2005, 03:04 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
what's the correct play with this turn card?

Party Poker 30/60 Hold'em (7 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, 1 fold, CO 3-bets, 2 folds, BB calls, Hero caps, CO calls, BB calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, CO raises, BB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (8.25 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)

[/ QUOTE ]

At this point I think you are either WA or WB. I like check-call, check-call.

[/ QUOTE ]sometimes i think reading 2+2 damages ppls game more than it helps them.
every post is WA/WB and FTOP.
how could this be WA/WB?
extremely draw heavy board.
PP means any board pair that does not have a K kicker has a minimum of 5 outs.

my recomendation is that you bet/call cehck/call or bet/bet/call... if the turn goes betcall and the river goes bet/raise on a scary one, id prob lay it down.

jetsonsdogcanfly · #5 10-08-2005, 03:33 AM

that board is only draw heavy if the CO is 3betting 89-9T.

Fillamoore · #6 10-08-2005, 04:21 AM

i really like a bet here on the turn...it really feels like villain has QQ or JJ, maybe even TT. A bet here will let you know where you stand in the hand completely. If you get raised, given the board, it still doesn't mean you're behind. I definitely like a bet. If you get raised call and check call river. If he just calls your bet on the turn then you've got him drawing to two outs and well...need i say more...(christ my girlfriend is annoying...she keeps slamming all the doors...)

random · #7 10-08-2005, 08:51 AM

[ QUOTE ]
A bet here will let you know where you stand in the hand completely. If you get raised, given the board, it still doesn't mean you're behind.

[/ QUOTE ]So if he gets raised he doesn't know where he stands in the hand completely, does he? Also, why wouldn't villain wait for the river to raise with an ace for fear that a non-ace hand will fold?

[ QUOTE ]
...(christ my girlfriend is annoying...she keeps slamming all the doors...)

[/ QUOTE ] Thanks, dude.

elindauer · #8 10-08-2005, 11:22 AM

In this spot, it's actually fairly likely that your opponent does not have an ace and your KK is the best hand. In this case though, he is drawing to a mere 2 outs, so you don't need to spend too much time worrying about knocking out his draw, and should focus on winning the max when you are ahead / losing least when behind, the so called way ahead / way behind play.

In light of this, I think checking and perhaps donking the river is the best play. You don't want to get raised when you bet into him, so waiting for the river may be best. If he checks the turn of course, you have the best hand and bet the river for value.

Basically, you can't go too wrong provided you don't check-fold.

good luck.
eric

elindauer · #9 10-08-2005, 11:22 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I c/r - fold to 3-bet and check-call the river against typical opponents.

[/ QUOTE ]

What is the point of the check-raise? I don't get it. Are you trying to convince a lower pocket pair to fold? Why?

elindauer · #10 10-08-2005, 11:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
what's the correct play with this turn card?

Party Poker 30/60 Hold'em (7 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, 1 fold, CO 3-bets, 2 folds, BB calls, Hero caps, CO calls, BB calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, CO raises, BB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (8.25 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)

[/ QUOTE ]

At this point I think you are either WA or WB. I like check-call, check-call.

[/ QUOTE ]sometimes i think reading 2+2 damages ppls game more than it helps them.
every post is WA/WB and FTOP.
how could this be WA/WB?
extremely draw heavy board.
PP means any board pair that does not have a K kicker has a minimum of 5 outs.

my recomendation is that you bet/call cehck/call or bet/bet/call... if the turn goes betcall and the river goes bet/raise on a scary one, id prob lay it down.

[/ QUOTE ]

Basic hand reading suggests that the draws that are on the board are not likely to be held by the villain. He 3-bet preflop and raised the flop. By far his most likely holdings are pocket over pairs to the flop, which are drawing near dead, and AK-88-77 which has you drawing near dead. Worrying about 98 or T9 is silly.

There is some risk that he has a flush draw, however, very few 3-bet quality hands are suited, and most of those are not suited in hearts. Playing your hand as WA / WB is, IMO, perfect (although I might donk bet the river, per my post).

-eric