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  #1  
Old 12-02-2005, 07:02 PM
Tom Bayes Tom Bayes is offline
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Default I\'m ITM but my ROI is negative

Usually you have to be playing a rebuy rather wildy to be in a situation where you cash in a tournament but still lose money. No more. Now you can lose money cashing in a freezeout. Many of us have been bitching about Stars' new 20% payout schedule. Here's a $3+0.30 Stud tournament I'm in right now with 280 players, 56 to get paid.



Yep. 41st-56th place lose money and 25th to 40th make nothing. They shouldn't pay more than 24 in this tourney, maybe just the last 16.
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  #2  
Old 12-02-2005, 07:13 PM
ansky451 ansky451 is offline
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Default Re: I\'m ITM but my ROI is negative

sdf;lsiohdfpiashpogifwreafjiaesorjga[iowrj


WHY POKERSTARS??? WHY?
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  #3  
Old 12-02-2005, 07:20 PM
yvesaint yvesaint is offline
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Location: sittin on my 6xbuy-in stack
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Default Re: I\'m ITM but my ROI is negative

man now i can stall on the bubble to just squeak in to lose!!
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  #4  
Old 12-02-2005, 07:21 PM
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Default Re: I\'m ITM but my ROI is negative

Here's the math

25th - 40th get back a total of $53.76
41st - 56th get back a total of $40.32

Total paid out to 25th + = $94.08
Total in prize pool = $840

% paid to lowest ITM finishers = 11.2%

This means that the top 24 would get 12.5% more if only the top 10% were paid.

A long run small reward to mediocre players at the expense of the good ones.
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  #5  
Old 12-02-2005, 07:29 PM
PrayingMantis PrayingMantis is offline
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Location: 11,600 km from Vegas
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Default Re: I\'m ITM but my ROI is negative

It is sad but not entirely surprising that they start doing it this way. It obviously helps them to keep more money circulating inside the site, instead of it being moved in bigger chunks and more rapidly to fewer people, each tournament. Money circulating inside the site more time = more rake coming from the same money/same players.

I wonder if there's any way to make them change their mind.
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  #6  
Old 12-02-2005, 08:01 PM
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Default Re: I\'m ITM but my ROI is negative

Hmmmm...since these 20% have started i have been getting pretty deep a little more often. Tripling up in the first hour often gives you the stack to push a table around on the new early bubble as more people are happy just to cash (and maybe pick up easy TLB points). As soon as the rather fragile bubble bursts it seems to take the form of a pushfest for the next two or three levels which also gives an advantage to the big stacks. From there on it is the decent players (which would be the top 10% anyway) playing for the final table. While less profitable in Stars tournies, I see everything as primer for an eventual ME final table and this just seems like a big tourny in fast motion to me.....but I'm still a donk [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
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  #7  
Old 12-02-2005, 08:23 PM
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Default Re: I\'m ITM but my ROI is negative

For the record, this isn't inherently a negative. Is the structure exactly the same as it would be for some lower buy-in tourny with some larger amount of entrants? If so, just pretend it's that, and play accordingly.
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  #8  
Old 12-02-2005, 08:25 PM
Exitonly Exitonly is offline
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Default Re: I\'m ITM but my ROI is negative

so.. pretending your $10 buyin is a $5 buyin isn't a negative?
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  #9  
Old 12-02-2005, 08:30 PM
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Default Re: I\'m ITM but my ROI is negative

[ QUOTE ]
so.. pretending your $10 buyin is a $5 buyin isn't a negative?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not if half the field's already gone and the average stack is half what it otherwise would be. My point was just that the strategy should be exactly the same as that situation, so you can't really argue that this takes advantage a way as the proper strategy is just the proper strategy for another situation in which 2p2ers consider themselves to be +EV.
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  #10  
Old 12-02-2005, 08:31 PM
jwvdcw jwvdcw is offline
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Default Re: I\'m ITM but my ROI is negative

PartyPoker has been doing this for years...nothing new here.

I don't really mind it either way. In the long run it'll hurt you if you're more of an aggressive player that either busts early or goes real deep, but it'll help the safer players who make more money finishes.
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