Use of bet / fold - non-SSHE-like?

[jively]

Hey all,

I was successful at $0.50/$1 full, and started $0.50/$1 6-max about 1500 hands ago, about break even. For full ring, I'm following SSHE pretty strictly, and being very aggressive on the flop (using the philosophy that if it's good enough to call a bet, I should probably bet out). Thus I am betting out a lot on middle pair, flush draws, and OE straight draws in moderate-sized+ pots.

In moving to 6-max, clearly the starting hand values change, and there is some stealing the blinds and some defending the blinds. There is some more stealing of smaller pots that no one is showing interest in. But, it's still the same game - still small stakes hold 'em.

In looking at people's hand posts and discussions and in a recent session review, I see that a lot of people use bet-fold on the flop, turn, or river. (Bet out, and fold to a raise.) I don't know if I've *ever* done that! It goes in the face of the SSHE philosophy that you shouldn't bet (or call) and fold in the same betting round, as people who are noticing may start to take shots at you. Plus I think it can be wrong because of some of the strange things people show down. Some people are going from being the aggressor in a hand to folding with one player's raise!

How important is bet-fold? What level does it become correct to use it? (For example, at $10/$20 is it an essential tool? If so, can I wait until I higher level before using it?)

Thanks,

-Tom

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I don't know if I've *ever* done that! It goes in the face of the SSHE philosophy that you shouldn't bet (or call) and fold in the same betting round

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You have it backwards. Bet-fold works at low limits because the players are more passive and less likely to raise without a made hand. At higher limits, players are capable of raising with a much wider range of hands, many of which you may be ahead of, in which case you don't fold.

The key is the tendency of small stakes players to play passively postflop. A raise from a calling station means a lot, and you can fold in confidence. Naturally, there are other player types (i.e., LAGs) against which bet-fold doesn't work as well. You have to learn to adjust to them and check-call more.

Hi Jively-

Make sure to read through all the links in the sticky at the top of this forum, they are immensely useful in learning shorthanded strategies. For the most part, bet/fold is a river play, often when you have a marginal hand such as 88 and maybe two overcards on the board. It works best when there isn't a scare card on the river, such as a third card to a flush, because you don't want to give people a chance to easily bluff you. (When a scare card hits, a better line is often to induce a bluff by checking the river.) That said, small stakes is full of calling stations - and that's even more true at shorthanded games. Bet/fold is often better for the donk who calls down with T2 when he hits his two on the flop but won't bet the river if you check it to him.

[Ed Miller]

I think you misunderstood me in SSH a bit.

I said, tend to bet-call rather than bet-fold IF IT'S OTHERWISE VERY CLOSE. Like say you semi-bluff with a gutshot on the flop and get raised, and you are getting like 6-to-1. It's about even whether you fold or call (assuming you have some pairing equity too), so go ahead and call.

But if this is the turn, and you semi-bluff a gutshot and get raised, and you are getting 6-to-1 this time, you've got an easy and clear fold. (Hopefully the difference between the situations is clear also.)

There are quite a few situations when bet-fold is the right line.