QQ: Totally weak post-flop play, or...

[spentrent]

...is any bet -EV?


Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (9 handed) converter

Button (t1615)
SB (t720)
BB (t1593)
UTG (t665)
UTG+1 (t443)
MP1 (t715)
MP2 (t484)
Hero (t760)
CO (t1005)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls t15, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises to t75</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t150</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, UTG folds, MP1 calls t75.

Flop: (t337.50) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP1 checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (t337.50) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP1 checks, Hero checks.

River: (t337.50) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP1 checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: t337.50

...okay, so I had just busted out of two other games having made TERRIBLE decisions, decisions the likes of which hadn't been made for months, and the Poker Gods compounded it in another game where my KK got busted by QQ after getting all the money in pre-flop...

So I wasn't feeling very good about anything. Did I poo the bed on this QQ hand or what?

[MisterJed]

You should raise much more preflop, to somewhere between 250 and 300. QQ is a great hand, but if someone has K10 then your min-reraise will not chase them out (probably), and they will end up winning the hand.

[sofere]

I don't really like this line...if your going to play this weakly you might as well smooth call preflop. Otherwise I'd just push. After the flop, I didn't think the play was horrible, as playing weak-tight is rarely completely wrong early on, but I would've played it differently.

I like to mix up my play with betting or checking the flop. I hate getting check raised, but I also hate giving up the free card for the flush. I'd say about 60/40 check/bet the flop. Fold to a reraise, check-fold any call. Definitley put in a value bet on the river if its checked all the way through...I highly doubt he has you beat.

[MisterJed]

Sorry...I didn't notice you were looking at your postflop play...

I would probably bet the turn here, in case he has an ace. I don't think he's trying to trap you, and he's screaming weakness. And who knows, he might call with a pocket pair or something.

[jcm4ccc]

The preflop play has made the pot very big, which makes it difficult to play on the flop. If you are going to bet the flop, you're committing yourself to the pot.

I think the reason you raised preflop was to get it heads up. The purpose of getting it heads up is so that you can play the flop hard when a King hits the flop. So I don't think your flop play was consistent with your preflop play. You got it heads up, the probability is good that he doesn't have the king. So you should bet the flop.

If you wanted to play it more conservatively, you could have called the preflop raise, with the intention of check/folding if overcards hit the flop and you had more than one caller. That would have been consistent with your flop play.

As it is, it looks like you turned chicken between the preflop and the flop.

[curtains]

You should have raised more preflop, when you reraise with a hand like QQ you almost always want to give your opponent the chance to fold. You didn't do so here as they arent folding for 75 more. However I usually want action with this hand if Im ahead, so Id probably raise to 300 and put rest of the chips in on the flop. Allin is quite reasonable preflop as well.
On flop I'd bet something. I like to think that my opponents aren't generally creative enough to check raise bluff me. But they may be creative enough to bet the turn if I check the flop, and then I have no idea where I'm at. It's much harder for them to show false aggression if you show aggression yourself.
So umm, if I somehow got into your situation postflop, I'd bet something. btw I tend to look ahead in tournaments and anticipate such flop situations. I wouldnt want to be in a situation where I have 600 chips and there is 350 in the pot, because certain scary boards can still make my decision difficult. I'd like to manipulate the pot so that I'm making a decent size raise preflop, but also my postflop decisions will be automatic.

[spentrent]

Yeah, everyone's right. I am a chicken. If I throw the last raise in pre-flop I have bought the right to represent AK.

I think I should have just pushed pre-flop and forced the opener to make a hard decision.

[raptor517]

lol, i definitely think pushing preflop has some merits, especially in the lower limts as you can get hands as weak as 99 and A10 to call you. however, in a 50+5 and up, since it is level 1, i would just call the raise and play the hand from there.

[curtains]

Cant be 50 and up when the players are starting with 800 in chips.

[raptor517]

i never said that it was. i was saying what i would do in that instance..