"If you don't like it, leave"

[Cyrus]

"Please explain why calling someone unpatriotic is vile but calling someone a baby killer is good?"

Calling a Vietnam vet a "baby killer" just because they went over to serve is objectionable, as it is to call someone "unpatriotic" because he happens to disagree with official American policy. (I personally don't find equal fault with the two, but this is not the point.)

The important thing I'm pointing out is that both are much more vile than calling your President a "scumbag", a "bozo" or worse epithets.

"While either one may be wrong in their assessment, they are both just free expression."

I agree. This is why I responded under the Klingon's post, who also supports free expression. (What I wanted to do was to point out the danger of relativism.)

"Calling your president a Bozo, insulting your countrymen as warmongers, liars, scumbags, baby killers, etc. is very good and helpful towards open discussion. However, calling those people hurling these insults unpatriotic crosses some sort of line?"

The above is somewhat confused writing. Let me clarify, again : The inclination to dissent against authority is IMHO the very essence and the distinctive characteristic of American democracy. Some people who know better, such as Presidents, Founding Fathers, et al, have even gone as far as suggesting that dissent is a duty. An ex-Prez flat out invited Americans to be disrespectful to their Prez!

(Note to MMMMMM : Ann Coulter is a certifiable lunatic. I could not aspire to write like her, not even with an overdose of johncoles.)

Insulting your Prez is healthy for democracy! Even when you're not being correct nor accurate. (The man behind the Presidency is not the objective. The seat of power is.) Insulting your fellow countrymen is not healthy, righteous or constructive to democracy.

If you fail to distinguish the differences between a fellow citizen and the Prez, what can I tell you? Only that you, as a Libertarian (I'm a Libertine myself, so we're in the same bed), should know better. And that the 1776 Revolution's war cry was NOT "Up with the President" but something else, and quite teling.

"...that wit ... gave your posts charm."

You're such a flirt. So what are you wearing right now?

[John Cole]

Diane Sawyer: Why didn't you distinguish between Saddam's having WMDs and Saddam's quest to obtain WMDs?

President Bush: What's the difference?

[ACPlayer]

Well, I would have no objection to the US withdrawing from the UN.

In fact, we can withdraw from the UN, close our borders, impose steel tarriffs, shut down commerce with the outside world and have a massive in home circle jerk.

Until we decide to do that, lets have the body that decided to threaten seaious consequences decide what those consequences are. I dont think our diplomatic skills are really that bad (at least they weren't before Bush showed up!).

[Utah]

Ah....I think I see what you are saying and I pretty much agree with you.

However, one cannot blast the president, his countrymen, his country, etc. under the guise of free speech and then feel wronged when that same free speech is used to toss a few grenades back at them.

To try and assign "points" to how vile something is compared to something else is a futile effort.

Ann Coultier is a complete whack job. She is a poster child for deep therapy. She has so much hate in her that wants to get out that she twitches.

So what are you wearing right now?
Wool......lots and lots of wool. Its Minnesota and it is freakin freezing. I am looking out my office window and I see nothing but white and cold.

[elwoodblues]

[ QUOTE ]
Its Minnesota and it is freakin freezing

[/ QUOTE ]

Very mild today...I see lots of white, but a lot of it has melted the past few days [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Gamblor]

In fact, we can withdraw from the UN, close our borders, impose steel tarriffs, shut down commerce with the outside world and have a massive in home circle jerk.

Don't get me wrong, I think the UN, in principle is a worthy and valid entity.

Shame it has been hijacked by blocs of severely anti-American states, anti-American even before Bush), consisting of the 1) Arab Bloc of 22 states in North Africa and the Middle East, 2) Europeans in bed with Arab oil interests and a world-domination complex based in nothing but blind hatred of American hegemony, and appeasement of the Arab oil barons.

[Utah]

Thats the problem right there. Its below freezing and we consider it mild.

[elwoodblues]

True...it's all relative I guess. The crazy thing is I was walking around without a jacket this weekend (because of how "warm" it was.) Where in the cities are you at?

[Utah]

Eden Prarie right next to Bear Path. Yourself?

That says something about Minnesotans when they think 35 is a heat wave.

My sister went to Rice University in Houston and she once brought her boyfriend back. It was about 30 at the time and he thought he was going to freeze to death. He was wearing a huge wool jacket zipped to the top with a hood. The drawstring was pulled until he looked like Kenny from Southpark. Everyone else was walking about with their jackets unzipped and no hats.

[ACPlayer]

So, lets see, the UN is a worthy entity but only if its members side with the US and Israel in all matters as opposed to promoting their interests. The US should simply ignore the body when it disagrees. Funny idea of a worthy entity.

You guys simply dont realize that there exist other points of view which to the holders of those points of view are completely valid and reasonable. You are so caught up in being right you forget that a being right is relative to a frame of reference.