A basic conceptual problem: AK heads up, rag flop.

[Ortho]

I have problems with this kind of situation. Villain is clearly tight preflop, but hasn't played enough hands postflop for me to have a good postflop read on him. I have him pegged as tight-weak but I don't have a lot of confidence in the read. The problem in this hand is that I don't know if he's making a move on me or not.

I'm not that interested in table-selection advice. I play in games this tight for the crypto monthly bonuses, and there's not that much I can do about it until I'm comfortable playing 6-max. So, given that I'm at a table this tight, how should I play this?

I'm UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and raise. Folded around to villain in BB who calls.

(4.5 sb, 2 players). Flop: 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Villain bets.

Okay. I see the flop is rags. I know he's smart enough to see the flop is rags. I know that he probably didn't hit this flop because he's tight enough that I don't think he's calling with low cards. I think he would call with a medium pair but not with a big pair. Still, he's betting and he hasn't gotten out of line since I've been playing.

If I had a middle pair in villain's spot, I'd like to check-raise in this spot, but I don't think that he's tricky enough to make this move, so he could just be betting a pair. However, is he tricky enough to bet with nothing? There's a flaw in my thinking somewhere.

I should also point out that villain has seen me make what probably looked like him to be autobets postflop on several occasions.

So, what to do? Strictly speaking, I don't have enough odds to call for my 6-outer (I think it's reasonable to assume I have pretty close to six). My implied odds against this player aren't very good, and I'm not even sure he'll pay off my one pair. However, if there is some chance my hand is best, I have an easy call.

I could raise, trying for a free card on the turn, but I think that the free card play would work against this player 50% of the time. I think he'd stop and go or check-raise me some percentage of the time.

I could fold, giving him credit as a tight player for having either played a pair or hit the board, but there are two problems with this: 1) it might be incorrect in this hand; 2) it might encourage him or others to autobet at me after I raise preflop on subsequent hands.

Anyway, this is a very common situation for me, and I'm not very comfortable with it.

[Village Idiot]

If it's micro limits and you are looking for info. on this guy I'm inclined to raise and see what his response is.

You haven't seen him get out of line. Ok. Have you seen him showdown any hand ?
Do you think he would be betting out trips like this ?

If he doesn't have trips and isn't bluffing my most likely hands to put him on are Ax where he has either top pair or second pair with the Ace kicker.

If that's the case it's true you don't have the odds to call. But, if you want info. on him then maybe you do raise trying for the free river card.

[Ortho]

[ QUOTE ]
You haven't seen him get out of line. Ok. Have you seen him showdown any hand ?
Do you think he would be betting out trips like this ?

[/ QUOTE ]

He's generic Crypto weak-tight. I've seen him play top pair aggressively, and I haven't seen him show down anything odd for his position.

I'm almost certain he would not bet trips like this, because I tend to be regarded as a betting station postflop by anyone who's paying attention in these games. He would slowplay and raise me on the turn, or maybe even on the river.

I'm pretty comfortable he doesn't have a big pair or trips. There aren't any draws. I'm putting him on, as you say, a pair with an ace kicker, a medium pair, or a bluff.

[Village Idiot]

Then assuming you have 3 outs this is an easy fold.
Unless you think gaining the info. on him here is worth investing some bets.

Plus the possibility that you may be able to move him off of the pot if/after an overcard to the board hits the turn or river and it isn't an Ace.

[@bsolute_luck]

thinking that you have only 3 outs HU on this flop is very very limiting. you easily could have full 6.

there are certain hands where it is worth while to go to war for the blinds and your PFR even if you don't make your hand or lose to A/Kx- this is one of those hands IMO.

you can't just assume you have the worst of it from the get go and fold when UI just because you don't hit. not only you'll lose a lot of $$ with this thinking, you won't gain as much as people will automatically fold when you continuation bet because they know you only bet when you hit.

[Ortho]

[ QUOTE ]
thinking that you have only 3 outs HU on this flop is very very limiting. you easily could have full 6.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do think that I have 6 most of the time, simply because top pair ace kicker on this board is a small portion of his holdings. The other poster is more concerned about reverse domination than I am.


[ QUOTE ]
there are certain hands where it is worth while to go to war for the blinds and your PFR even if you don't make your hand or lose to A/Kx- this is one of those hands IMO.

you can't just assume you have the worst of it from the get go and fold when UI just because you don't hit. not only you'll lose a lot of $$ with this thinking, you won't gain as much as people will automatically fold when you continuation bet because they know you only bet when you hit.

[/ QUOTE ]

If it gets checked to me, I'm surely betting. And I agree with you that it seems weak to simply fold here, but if I don't, how should I play the hand?

[@bsolute_luck]

well, i've been reading a post by Nate da Great about raising UI overcards, and a post to unlearn the "raising for a free card" move.

really i think i've come to the point that calling would actually make me more nervous if i was in BB. UI overcards are obviously raising with nothing scary on the board, and High pocket pairs should be waiting until later streets to raise, but i don't know if your opponent is a thinking player or not or if the free card move would work or not.

all that thinking to say: call [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[mojobluesman]

This is the type of hand that used to drive me crazy. Now I just fold. The pot is too small to get worked up over.

As a general rule, I think when someone bets into a pre-flop raiser like this they have "something", usually a pair. I guess it's possible he played something like 67s or 23s from the big blind and is betting his draw, but I sort of doubt it.

I think you have 6 outs "at best", but you may be reverse dominated (is that the term?) because he may have played Ax and hit a pair. That kills your A.

If the pot was bigger it might be worth playing.

[Aaron W.]

[ QUOTE ]
I have problems with this kind of situation. Villain is clearly tight preflop, but hasn't played enough hands postflop for me to have a good postflop read on him. I have him pegged as tight-weak but I don't have a lot of confidence in the read. The problem in this hand is that I don't know if he's making a move on me or not.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would go slow the first time he does this. Call a flop bet, fold the turn UI. If I haven't seen him play games with anyone else postflop, why should I believe he's starting to play games now? And weak-tight players might be willing to bet a ragged flop, but have a tougher time betting the turn if they have nothing.

If it happens again, then you can start to play back at him (raise the flop, or wait until the turn to raise, or maybe just call-call-call if you don't think he'll fold to a raise but will keep betting blanks -- watch him play in other hands to see which might be best).

I have the same ego problem sometimes in heads up situations. I think everybody is out to make a fool of me (whether they show it or not), and I want to defend my playing ability by outplaying them. That just leads to costly mistakes. The pot isn't that large, your chances of having the best hand are somewhat dubious (the first time you see him do this, anyway). There's nothing wrong with just letting it go.

[McGahee]

Aaron nailed this one. Ego can cost you $ HU, when you start to get paranoid about Mr. 'hasn't bluffed since 1986' making a play on you.

The fun part about being in position is that you have so many different options if you do think villian is tricky:
Raise flop, bet turn, check river
Call flop, raise turn, check river
Raise flop, check turn,
Call flop, call turn

Not being a huge free card guy, I prefer one of the first two. Of course call flop, fold turn is UI is always a good option vs. predictable foes.

OP mentioned how he'd normally C/R the flop w/ a pair when OOP. That's fine, but FWIW I'd rather get C/R'd than donkbet w/ overs when I'm in position.