I Can't Help Myself...

[bluewilde]

When taking bad odds drawing to good hands. If you tell me that this is just bad, I won't do it again. Early in a stars $11:

*********** # 1 **************
PokerStars Game #2195932270: Tournament #10551399, Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2005/07/26 - 22:40:04 (ET)
Table '10551399 1' Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: Rickmeister (1380 in chips)
Seat 2: boynee4 (3680 in chips)
Seat 3: mike 4352 (800 in chips)
Seat 4: bluewilde (1450 in chips)
Seat 5: Chipmunk LD (1280 in chips)
Seat 6: Kathraina (640 in chips)
Seat 7: tsuiuc (1410 in chips)
Seat 8: rolenfan (1420 in chips)
Seat 9: MKrahl69 (1440 in chips)
MKrahl69: posts small blind 10
Rickmeister: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to bluewilde [As Qd]
boynee4: folds
mike 4352: calls 20
bluewilde: calls 20
Chipmunk LD: calls 20
Kathraina: folds
tsuiuc: folds
rolenfan: calls 20
MKrahl69: calls 10
Rickmeister: checks
*** FLOP *** [Js 9s 3s]
MKrahl69: checks
Rickmeister: checks
mike 4352: checks
bluewilde: checks
Chipmunk LD: bets 80
rolenfan: folds
MKrahl69: folds
Rickmeister: folds
mike 4352: folds
bluewilde: calls 80
*** TURN *** [Js 9s 3s] [8d]
bluewilde: checks
Chipmunk LD: bets 100
bluewilde: calls 100
*** RIVER *** [Js 9s 3s 8d] [Ah]
bluewilde: checks
Chipmunk LD: bets 100
bluewilde: calls 100

[morgan180]

so you called 13% of your stack off to possibily hit the jack high 4 flush falling back on ace high until the miracle at the river??

[Paul2432]

What do you do if he bets 500 on the river? If your not going to make a big mistake when you hit an ace or queen, I think your play is not unreasonable. Often enough you'll hit a spade and double up versus a lower flush.

In this particular hand, I think the flop call is the only close call. On the turn and river the pot odds are too good to fold.

Paul

[bluewilde]

Precisely. That the above is wrong, I get [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. I'm just not sure what kind of flush draws are playable, if any. Do you have to already have TPTK, and there not be three of a suit on the board, do you have to have open-ended straight possibilities, etc. What sized bets can I call as thes criteria vary?

[lastchance]

Mix it up. Draws are meant to be raised, not chased. If you check the flop, which might be right, I really like calling flop and firing the turn to try to grab the river with FE.

[bluewilde]

Whaaa? This is very interesting. You're saying play to win the hand, whereas I just try to pick up winning cards cheaply and bail if I miss or it becomes too expensive.

Is it generally good to be aggressive with these draws, or only in special cases? It seems like I could bust out of a lot of SNGs early betting on draws, so can you give me an idea of what situations I'm looking for?

[jmillerdls]

right, you lose and are out is one scenario
they fold and you take down a pot is another
you hit, and they lose all their chips and you are in great position to win the whole thing is the last...

[durron597]

I checkraise this flop a very high percentage of the time.

[ewing55]

I have been playing like you. Just trying to check/call to keep my hand alive cheaply. But that is a great point. If you call you can only win one way - best hand. If you raise you can win two ways - best hand or villian folds.

Now I/you/we need to be careful and only do this with the proper odds, but it does seem to have some good possibilities.

It's something I'm going to start playing with.

--------------Jeff

[morgan180]

[ QUOTE ]
I checkraise this flop a very high percentage of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

i like this line - it gives you the best chance of taking down the pot immediately or walking away from it quickly. i only pull it when i feel like i have some balls and my opponent is weak tho.