KK - flop play

tomtemor · #1 07-09-2005, 04:02 PM

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) converter

It feels like I'm making stupid plays with the big pockets more often than not... What about this hand? No reads on the villian since he just sat down.

BB ($8.45)
UTG ($9.75)
UTG+1 ($13.99)
UTG+2 ($13.48)
MP1 ($38.75)
Hero ($49.45)
MP3 ($29.45)
CO ($43.22)
Button ($19.1)
SB ($43)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.1.
2 folds, UTG+2 calls $0.25, 1 fold, Hero raises to $1.5, MP3 calls $1.50, 4 folds, UTG+2 folds.

Flop: ($3.60) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $3.5, MP3 raises to $7, Hero raises to $15, MP3 raises to $23, Hero raises to $31, MP3 calls $4.95 (All-In).

Turn: ($62.55) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($62.55) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $62.55

dinero2433 · #2 07-09-2005, 04:19 PM

I don't mind the way you played this - you make a standard raise preflop that gets cold called, and you're aggressive on the flop with your overpair by betting and reraising.

This just sucks because unless MP3 is really bad, he hit a pretty big hand. AJ is possible, but it seems unlikely with the heavy action he is giving. With a second raise to your reraise, a set of sevens, jacks, or pocket rockets would not be out of the question. Pot's too big to get away from, though. What did he have?

Hoopster81 · #3 07-09-2005, 04:24 PM

Maybe just let it go after he 4-bets your $15.00 flop raise? Tough w/o a read at the $25 tables though.

tomtemor · #4 07-09-2005, 04:33 PM

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Maybe just let it go after he 4-bets your $15.00 flop raise? Tough w/o a read at the $25 tables though.

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I actually considered that, got the feeling I had pumped the pot too much already though. On a second thought this might have been an okey play.

tomtemor · #5 07-09-2005, 05:37 PM

He ended up showing me JJ for the set.

kurto · #6 07-09-2005, 06:04 PM

This is bad. UNLESS you have a strong read on a player being really bad, it should be clear as day that you were beat.

You have to think about what he thinks you're likely to have... He knows you raised PF- he has to consider you have a decent pocket pair. Even with the first minraise, some bells should be going off. There was no point in reraising him. Once you did it and he kept raising, there's no way you're ahead.

Looking at the board (uncoordinated with only a flush draw) 9 out of 10 times, the guy has a set.

Call the minraise. I would consider calling a very small bet on the turn with the flush draw. Fold to any real bet.

tomtemor · #7 07-09-2005, 06:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This is bad. UNLESS you have a strong read on a player being really bad, it should be clear as day that you were beat.

You have to think about what he thinks you're likely to have... He knows you raised PF- he has to consider you have a decent pocket pair. Even with the first minraise, some bells should be going off. There was no point in reraising him. Once you did it and he kept raising, there's no way you're ahead.

Looking at the board (uncoordinated with only a flush draw) 9 out of 10 times, the guy has a set.

Call the minraise. I would consider calling a very small bet on the turn with the flush draw. Fold to any real bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks, you have some good points... But if I would only call his first raise on the flop there's a big chance that he'll bet say a half pot bet on the turn to which I'd fold - correct?

theben · #8 07-09-2005, 08:12 PM

after the 3rd raise goes in, you have to assume you are beaten unless you are against braindead queens

id probably only have made it 1 preflop and then try to play a smaller pot on the flop.

jjacky · #9 07-09-2005, 09:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is bad. UNLESS you have a strong read on a player being really bad, it should be clear as day that you were beat.

You have to think about what he thinks you're likely to have... He knows you raised PF- he has to consider you have a decent pocket pair. Even with the first minraise, some bells should be going off. There was no point in reraising him. Once you did it and he kept raising, there's no way you're ahead.

Looking at the board (uncoordinated with only a flush draw) 9 out of 10 times, the guy has a set.

Call the minraise. I would consider calling a very small bet on the turn with the flush draw. Fold to any real bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks, you have some good points... But if I would only call his first raise on the flop there's a big chance that he'll bet say a half pot bet on the turn to which I'd fold - correct?

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yes, i think that would be a good line.

if that sounds weak, remember: the pot was only a little bit over 3 $ on the flop. you have shown much strength on the flop with your bet and your opponent is not very likely to try to bluff you off an overpair in this spot. it can't be good poker to loose 30$ more on a one pair hand in a 3$ pot.
as far as i have experienced, overplaying premium starting hands pre flop and on the flop is a very common and devastating mistake in small nl games.

tomtemor · #10 07-10-2005, 05:40 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is bad. UNLESS you have a strong read on a player being really bad, it should be clear as day that you were beat.

You have to think about what he thinks you're likely to have... He knows you raised PF- he has to consider you have a decent pocket pair. Even with the first minraise, some bells should be going off. There was no point in reraising him. Once you did it and he kept raising, there's no way you're ahead.

Looking at the board (uncoordinated with only a flush draw) 9 out of 10 times, the guy has a set.

Call the minraise. I would consider calling a very small bet on the turn with the flush draw. Fold to any real bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks, you have some good points... But if I would only call his first raise on the flop there's a big chance that he'll bet say a half pot bet on the turn to which I'd fold - correct?

[/ QUOTE ]

yes, i think that would be a good line.

if that sounds weak, remember: the pot was only a little bit over 3 $ on the flop. you have shown much strength on the flop with your bet and your opponent is not very likely to try to bluff you off an overpair in this spot. it can't be good poker to loose 30$ more on a one pair hand in a 3$ pot.
as far as i have experienced, overplaying premium starting hands pre flop and on the flop is a very common and devastating mistake in small nl games.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks. Yes, I agree with people overplaying premium starting hands. I'm one of the guys doing it I'm afraid. I better go on and post some more big PP hands.

Thanks for all the answers, I got some good pointers!