Need evalutation of my double shoot out hand

[tdomeski]

1st round people tend to play looser and will probably call with a ton of hands here that you have beaten if you get it all in on flop.

[Pat Southern]

I lead the flop for 200, charge those guys who will call with a gutshot+overs

[lemonPeel]

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1st round people tend to play looser and will probably call with a ton of hands here that you have beaten if you get it all in on flop.

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I was worried that if I check raised all in on such a crappy board when he bet 200 and I raised it another 1100 ( which is more than half his stack) he'd give it up on the flop and fold.

[rwanger]

Don't second guess yourself. You played it well. You need to get all your chips in on the turn, in case he wants to call with a worse hand or a draw. If he's ahead you still have outs.

Since you called him an aggressive opponent, and check called him into committing much of his stack, you got what you wanted.

I would have checked it to him on the flop as well, unless you thought he might be limping on the button with a huge hand, in which case you should lead, hoping to be raised. Had you seen him open limp before from the button or cutoff?

If he had QJ, he would have called you on the flop, and then made his straight on the turn. There isn't much you could have done, especially being out of position (if you bet, he raises, if you check, you have no idea if he is betting a made hand, or just betting because you showed weakness).

You probably shouldn't check this turn to him unless you're VERY sure he'll bet, otherwise you're giving him a potentially free shot at hitting his hand on a draw heavy board.

[Diplomat]

Ok first things first. The LAG player limps from the button and bets only 200 when checked to. That's odd. What do you make of his play here?

Without putting thought into the question above, checkraise all-in on the flop. There are a lot of bad turn cards for your hand that will leave you with a tough decision on the turn, especially since you have only...actually how much do you have? Your numbers are a bit off. Assuming you have 1300 to start the hand, your checkraise all-in on the turn would be 1000, not 900. Not that it makes a difference though. Whatever your stack is exactly, it will be very difficult to get away from your hand on the turn should a scare card come. Moreover, it will be more difficult to -get- action from an inferior hand should something like the Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] hit on the turn. You need to maximize your fold equity and/or give him a chance to make a big mistake.

-Diplomat

p.s. what I have written might sound a bit...contradictory, but it makes sense in my flu-clouded brain.

[Diplomat]

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1st round people tend to play looser and will probably call with a ton of hands here that you have beaten if you get it all in on flop.

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I was worried that if I check raised all in on such a crappy board when he bet 200 and I raised it another 1100 ( which is more than half his stack) he'd give it up on the flop and fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

You need to ask yourself 1) what types of hands he will play in this manner and 2) given that range, if it's such a bad thing if folds.

-Diplomat

[lemonPeel]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok first things first. The LAG player limps from the button and bets only 200 when checked to. That's odd. What do you make of his play here?

Without putting thought into the question above, checkraise all-in on the flop. There are a lot of bad turn cards for your hand that will leave you with a tough decision on the turn, especially since you have only...actually how much do you have? Your numbers are a bit off. Assuming you have 1300 to start the hand, your checkraise all-in on the turn would be 1000, not 900. Not that it makes a difference though. Whatever your stack is exactly, it will be very difficult to get away from your hand on the turn should a scare card come. Moreover, it will be more difficult to -get- action from an inferior hand should something like the Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] hit on the turn. You need to maximize your fold equity and/or give him a chance to make a big mistake.

-Diplomat

p.s. what I have written might sound a bit...contradictory, but it makes sense in my flu-clouded brain.

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He bet 200 into a 300 dollar pot into two tight opponents in position. Seems kind of like one of those "do any of you guys want this pot?" kind of bets. Pushing all in over the top of it would really answer that question for him, though.


Yeah, with such a small stack, I should of just pushed all in on the flop for 900 more to try and win the 500 already in the pot, but I thought he might fold if I pushed on the flop. He was an aggressive betting type, but even the most aggressive types won't call unless they actually had something. So I waited til the turn to evaluate because if he had some sort of draw and I pushed on the flop, I'd be a 2 to 1 favorite, but if a blank comes on the turn and I pushed I'd be a 4.5 to 1 favorite if he had a draw that is.

[lemonPeel]

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1st round people tend to play looser and will probably call with a ton of hands here that you have beaten if you get it all in on flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was worried that if I check raised all in on such a crappy board when he bet 200 and I raised it another 1100 ( which is more than half his stack) he'd give it up on the flop and fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

You need to ask yourself 1) what types of hands he will play in this manner and 2) given that range, if it's such a bad thing if folds.

-Diplomat

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Well, I'm not the best person at putting people on hand ranges, but I figured he might have something like 56s, 78o, Kx, QTo, I wouldnt figure him for Ace anything because he prolly would of raised coming in with that or a pocket pair of any sorts. What range would you put him all on?

[Diplomat]

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1st round people tend to play looser and will probably call with a ton of hands here that you have beaten if you get it all in on flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was worried that if I check raised all in on such a crappy board when he bet 200 and I raised it another 1100 ( which is more than half his stack) he'd give it up on the flop and fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

You need to ask yourself 1) what types of hands he will play in this manner and 2) given that range, if it's such a bad thing if folds.

-Diplomat

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Well, I'm not the best person at putting people on hand ranges, but I figured he might have something like 56s, 78o, Kx, QTo, I wouldnt figure him for Ace anything because he prolly would of raised coming in with that or a pocket pair of any sorts. What range would you put him all on?

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Well I just noticed that this is the first round, so yeah, getting a good sense of someone this early is a bit tough. That said, when very aggro players do something like this, I often put them on a very strong hand pre-flop or semi-trash. Others with more sng experience will be much better than me at putting this guy on a hand, but often these guys will clam right up with a big wired pair, being scared of losing action. That said, you can't rule out any old trash hand. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I my point though is that there is a huge range of hands that you would like to see him fold on the flop; if he's going to call, you want his call to be as big of a mistake as possible. With that in mind, I like checkraising the flop, betting/three-betting the flop, or betting all-in on the turn (in that order). When you checkraise all-in on the turn, he's getting ok odds to call with a lot of hands you don't mind him folding.

-Diplomat

[tdomeski]

Who cares what he has, make him think you have less.