Scientists Find A DNA Change That Accounts For White Skin

[Matty]

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You're not talking about athletic superiority- you're talking about height; a polygenetic and highly variable trait which is inherited independently of skin color.

It is true that warmer climates prefer people who have higher body mass to surface ratio and longer appendages to give off heat, and the inverse to preserve heat in cold climates. More often than not, people living in warmer climates are also dark-skinned, but there are many populations which are an exception to the rule (again, refer to the large African pygmie populations); one trait does not indicate the other and again there is more variation within populations than between populations. This explains the penis thing; populations from colder climates have shorter thicker everything; including penises. It doesn't make them athletically superior; it just makes them taller on average. But that is not enough to explain the prominence of dark-skinned athletes in the U.S. Culture is the main cause there. Again, notice how many European whites are coming over here to play basketball (and all from poor countries). If playing sports professionally weren't such a long-odds gamble you'd see a lot more whites in the pros. There are whites out there in board rooms and running family businesses who could have been NBA all-stars if they'd dedicated their lives to it from a young age, like many blacks in America do. Look at Tiger Woods. You think he's genetically superior to every other person on earth when it comes to golf? No way. He was trained rigorously from a very, very young age to play golf. The same happens for more blacks in America than whites- their place in society gives them more drive to achieve athletic success.

IQ has already been studied. When education, environment, socio-economic status etc. are controlled for there is no difference between populations in IQ.

Again, alleles are inherited independently of each other, and there has been interbreeding between populations of [censored] sapiens since we emerged as a species. That means just because you know one phenotype of a person (say, their skin color) that does not give you any indication about any other phenotype they have. This is scientific fact. It is not something you can argue with based on what seems obvious to your own eyes.

[JackWhite]

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There are whites out there in board rooms and running family businesses who could have been NBA all-stars if they'd dedicated their lives to it from a young age

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So all it takes is dedication to be a great athlete? A sports publication recently listed their 2005 high school football All-American team. Out of the 22 first teamers pictured, 19 were black. Considering that the overwhelming majority of high school football players in the country are white, this is quite amazing.

Your theory that blacks dominate because they are driven to do so just doesn't hold. Every white kid in Texas and Pennsylvania and many other places grow up dreaming to play in the NFL or at least at a major college. Being a football star makes one a God in many of these places. Those kids work year around at it and are extremely driven. Why don't they make it in the NFL, while the black kids do, if all it takes it dedication to the sport?

There are 64 starting cornerbacks in the NFL..all are black. I have been following the NFL for about 15 years, the only white starting cornerback I can remember is Jason Sehorn. Do you really believe there isn't a biological reason behind that? Do coaches discriminate against white cornerbacks for some reason? Or could it be that white players don't have the physical tools to play that position?

[DVaut1]

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So all it takes is dedication to be a great athlete? A sports publication recently listed their 2005 high school football All-American team. Out of the 22 first teamers pictured, 19 were black. Considering that the overwhelming majority of high school football players in the country are white, this is quite amazing.

Your theory that blacks dominate because they are driven to do so just doesn't hold. Every white kid in Texas and Pennsylvania and many other places grow up dreaming to play in the NFL or at least at a major college. Being a football star makes one a God in many of these places. Those kids work year around at it and are extremely driven. Why don't they make it in the NFL, while the black kids do, if all it takes it dedication to the sport?

There are 64 starting cornerbacks in the NFL..all are black. I have been following the NFL for about 15 years, the only white starting cornerback I can remember is Jason Sehorn. Do you really believe there isn't a biological reason behind that? Do coaches discriminate against white cornerbacks for some reason? Or could it be that white players don't have the physical tools to play that position?

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ESPN's Scoop Jackson on the 'African Americans are genetically superior athletes theory' and why it's possibly coded bigotry (written in response to Jeff Kent's comments about Milton Bradley not hustling this past baseball season):

"We call it the gym rat theory. It insinuates that blacks are more naturally gifted athletes and the game comes easier to us, and because of that "theory" we don't practice as hard, we don't have to put in the same amount of hours, we don't have to do as much work.

And I'm not saying that you said that, I'm just telling you that black athletes have had to deal with that forever, since sports began. They said it about Joe Louis in relation to Rocky Marciano, they said it about Willie Mays in relation to Joe DiMaggio, they said it about Oscar Robertson in relation to Jerry West, Magic to Bird, they're saying it about Serena Williams in relation to Lindsay Davenport.

"Naturally gifted" to us Jeff … man, that's code for: We don't have to work as hard at the game as you all because of our inbred talent."

[JackWhite]

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"We call it the gym rat theory. It insinuates that blacks are more naturally gifted athletes and the game comes easier to us, and because of that "theory" we don't practice as hard, we don't have to put in the same amount of hours, we don't have to do as much work.

And I'm not saying that you said that, I'm just telling you that black athletes have had to deal with that forever, since sports began. They said it about Joe Louis in relation to Rocky Marciano, they said it about Willie Mays in relation to Joe DiMaggio, they said it about Oscar Robertson in relation to Jerry West, Magic to Bird, they're saying it about Serena Williams in relation to Lindsay Davenport.

"Naturally gifted" to us Jeff … man, that's code for: We don't have to work as hard at the game as you all because of our inbred talent."

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I remember the late EPSN and SI writer Ralph Wiley making the same point on a few occasions. I understand the concern, and it should go without saying, that is takes incredible hard work and practice to be great at anything. Kobe Bryant, Michael Jordan, Lebron James etc..worked very hard to be good at their sport. They didn't sit around eating donuts all day.

However, there are certain physical skills that you really cannot get better at through hard work. I could work at increasing my jumping ability 16 hours a day for 10 years, and I doubt I could even touch the rim. These natural atheltic skills are basically something you are born with. I seriously doubt Vince Carter and LeBron James were able to hit their head on the rim through hard work. They were born with that skill. When it comes to shooting, dribbling, passing etc...that is acquired through practice and hard work.

[DVaut1]

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However, there are certain physical skills that you really cannot get better at through hard work. I could work at increasing my jumping ability 16 hours a day for 10 years, and I doubt I could even touch the rim. These natural atheltic skills are basically something you are born with. I seriously doubt Vince Carter and LeBron James were able to hit their head on the rim through hard work. They were born with that skill. When it comes to shooting, dribbling, passing etc...that is acquired through practice and hard work.

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Vince Carter and Lebron James are 6'6 and 6'8, respectively. I assume most people that tall could eventually train themselves into being able to dunk a basketball. One reason why you or I (I'm 6'0 feet tall) couldn't train for 10 years and dunk a basketball is because we're signifcantly shorter than the athletes you've mentioned -- although I don't doubt that after serious training, most people couldn't drastically improve their vertical leap.

In other words, I don't think Vince and LeBron were born with that skill -- I think it is a product of hard work, exercise, training, practice, etc.

I generally assume there's an equal distribution of 6'8 males who can dunk a basketball among races (although I have no proof) -- if I'm wrong, and there is some statistically significant difference, I'm sure we can come up with some non-genetic reasons as to why.

If the claim is that African Americans are generally taller than white people, I think Grey does a pretty good job explaining why that is.

[JackWhite]

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Vince Carter and Lebron James are 6'6 and 6'8, respectively. I assume most people that tall could eventually train themselves into being able to dunk a basketball. One reason why you or I (I'm 6'0 feet tall) couldn't train for 10 years and dunk a basketball is because we're signifcantly shorter than the athletes you've mentioned -- although I don't doubt that after serious training, most people couldn't drastically improve their vertical leap.

In other words, I don't think Vince and LeBron were born with that skill -- I think it is a product of hard work, exercise, training, practice, etc.

I generally assume there's an equal distribution of 6'8 males who can dunk a basketball among races (although I have no proof) -- if I'm wrong, and there is some statistically significant difference, I'm sure we can come up with some non-genetic reasons as to why.

If the claim is that African Americans are generally taller than white people, I think Grey does a pretty good job explaining why that is.

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No, the argument is not that black people are taller than white people. I am not sure where to go with this arugment If you saying that athletic ability is all a product of hard work and not biology.

Since you are saying that hard work is main factor in determining who becomes a great athlete, what is your explaination for the previous stat I mentioned: 64 out of 64 NFL starting cornerbacks are black. Do white players simply not work hard enough? Are you saying that there simply wasn't one white guy in the entire country who worked hard at being a good CB?

I have a hard time believing that an educated person believes that the reason that some people can jump 4 feet off the ground is simply because they practiced a lot. There are certain athletic abilities that you are born with, and cannot be improved by a significant amount. Are you aware of one person who cound't jump a lick when they were 16, then they practiced for a few years and as a result, they could do windmill dunks?

[DVaut1]

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No, the argument is not that black people are taller than white people. I am not sure where to go with this arugment If you saying that athletic ability is all a product of hard work and not biology.

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I'm not saying that athletic ability isn't the product of biology; just that, I've seen no biological evidence to suggest that black people have more athletic ability than do whites, short of exactly what Grey cited -- people from historically warm weather climates have longer appendages and are built less stoutly to survive warmer temperatures, whereas people from colder climates developed shorter, stockier bodiers to survive cold weather.

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Since you are saying that hard work is main factor in determining who becomes a great athlete, what is your explaination for the previous stat I mentioned: 64 out of 64 NFL starting cornerbacks are black. Do white players simply not work hard enough?

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No. As Grey mentioned, there could be many reasons.

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Are you saying that there simply wasn't one white guy in the entire country who worked hard at being a good CB?

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I'm sure there are plenty of white CBs who worked hard at being good. So no, I'm not saying that.

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I have a hard time believing that an educated person believes that the reason that some people can jump 4 feet off the ground is simply because they practiced a lot.

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Why do you have a hard time believing that?

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There are certain athletic abilities that you are born with, and cannot be improved by a significant amount. Are you aware of one person who cound't jump a lick when they were 16, then they practiced for a few years and as a result, they could do windmill dunks?

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I'm not aware of anyone who can do a windmill dunk that isn't playing basketball at a high level. So to answer your question, I don't know anyone who DOES jump extremely high, plays basketball regularly, and CAN do a windmill dunk -- except for professionals.

I'm not a personal trainer, but I'm somewhat certain that the vertical leap is a skill that can improved with training.