Is counting worth it

[RedeemerKing]

Right now i am under 21 but love to gamble. I love poker and blackjack. I want to know is it worth it to start to learn how to count. Im just a guy who would do it by myself. No teams and no pipe dreams of takin vegas for 10 million. Is it worth it to learn how to count with the way they cut the deck and the CSMs. will card counting survive or will it be cut out in say 5-10 years. Can a single guy with a modest bet size profit from it. Any thoughts would be appreciated
Thx

[cardcounter0]

Counting is not gambling. If you like to gamble, counting will probably be too much of a grind for you. One of the most important aspects of counting is game selection. If the right conditions aren't there - don't play. Gamblers want action, counters want an advantage.

Will counting survive? I think so. These things move in cycles. Right now, we are at an extreme rip-off the customer cycle. Maybe things will start to swing the other way, and casinos attempt to actually attract players with better games.

Can you profit from counting? Absolutely. You must have the proper bankroll, the discipline to only play properly in the proper games, and the determination to put in the hours required.

[RedeemerKing]

The "grind" isnt a problem. Isnt it easy to spot a counter if you only take insurance sometimes or double 8 V 14 sometimes. How do u balance these out, and wont a the casinos notice that you keep winning (even if you play at different ones. cant they see how you do elsewhere somehow)
I just dont want to devote 2-3 years to learn something that I wont be able to put into practice

[cardcounter0]

Now you are talking about the "game within the game".

1) If you are betting modestly, you have a less chance of getting noticed. If you have idiots betting $100-$500 a hand, they don't care about the guy betting $25 and sometimes betting $50.

2) Keep sessions short - hit and run. Hard for them to figure out what you are doing if you only play for 20 minutes.

3) Move around. Don't sit at one table for hours where you are noticed. Play a shoe at one table, move to a different pit with a different pit boss, and play another.

4) Hit different shifts. Play 20 minutes with the day shift, and then after shift change play another 20. Weekend shift, day shift, night shift. Lots of time in one casino, but never the same faces twice.

5) Have a good act. Be friendly. Be a good customer. Nasty mean people with an attitude get backed off quicker than everybody's friend.

6) Learn some camo. For instance, in the case of Insurance, in some games it is profitable to simply take insurance every time. No eyebrows raised, you always take insurance (the profit comes into the fact that when you should be taking insurance, you are insuring a big bet, when you shouldn't have taken insurance, it is a small bet so no big loss).

Casinos have a tendency to judge a book by it's cover. So learn what they are looking for and do the opposite. If you look like a counter and act like a counter -- you are a counter. If you don't look like a counter and don't act like a counter -- they overlook what you are actually doing and betting.

[Iceman]

[ QUOTE ]
Right now i am under 21 but love to gamble. I love poker and blackjack. I want to know is it worth it to start to learn how to count. Im just a guy who would do it by myself. No teams and no pipe dreams of takin vegas for 10 million. Is it worth it to learn how to count with the way they cut the deck and the CSMs. will card counting survive or will it be cut out in say 5-10 years. Can a single guy with a modest bet size profit from it. Any thoughts would be appreciated
Thx

[/ QUOTE ]

On a small bankroll, it's not really worth it. Unless you have a huge bankroll and have access to great games, it's hardly profitable at all. Most counters only have around a .5% advantage, and in many casinos it wouldn't even be possible to do that. Shuffling machines, bars on midshoe entry, and 6:5 blackjack payouts are becoming more common. Also, blackjack is much less profitable for casinos than other games, so they're trying to promote other games instead and deemphasize blackjack below the $25 minimum level. It's much easier to make money in poker or sports betting than in blackjack, and they're lot more enjoyable than the drudgery of card counting.

[charlie_t_jr]

What cardcounter0 said. I'd only add, that if your top bet is below $100, play optimally. With your expectation, you really can't afford much cover or camo...but like cc says, keep your sessions short.

Also be careful of tipping too much. If you're a red chip player, you could easily tip away your advantage.

I've been doing it for nearly 2 years and have spread $5-50, $10-80 at double deck, and $10-50 at single deck pretty much with no cover, and never had a problem. But maybe that means I've been evaluated as playing a horrible game! [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]...but really with small betting and short sessions, you can go pretty much unnoticed.(keep in mind all my experience is in Tunica)

[ QUOTE ]
I just dont want to devote 2-3 years to learn something that I wont be able to put into practice

[/ QUOTE ]

I understand you're still underage and have a couple of years to go, but if you are reasonably intelligent, its only going to take you months, not years to learn a count system.

[cardcounter0]

Oh, yeah. Tips. At the red chip level a $1 tip is $100 worth of bets. Think about it.

[MicroBob]

[ QUOTE ]
Counting is not gambling.

[/ QUOTE ]


It isn't?

[cardcounter0]

HaHa - good catch. Of course, it is gambling. But it is not "gambling" in the sense that I am sure the original poster used the word -- let's buy a lottery ticket, throw the dice, spin the wheel type gambling for the thrill.

[MicroBob]

ty for clarifying.
you have me scared for a minute there.