How do I control pot odds?

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Betting 3/4 IMO more aggressive approach of playing this hand.
After betting 3/4 of the pot almost doesn't matter what turn brings: you can lay your hand down only to K or Q no clubs. Corrupting your opponents' odds twice would be nice, but you have no stack for it. This way you just gave yourself a way out from this hand, luring more calls from stupid opponents. One mistake for him is bad enough.

Pushing right away (having your reputation) would be safest and less aggressive way to play this hand.

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But here's the thing, betting $60 on the turn puts the pot up to around $140. If your opponent has K-Q, he's thinking he has around 14 outs, so he needs about 3 to 1 odds to call, not counting implied odds. A $60 turn bet pretty much gives him about the right odds to call. I just push my last $110 or so in on the turn to put the most pressure on K-Q to fold (and also A-K or A-Q. You might also actually get a call from K-J, especially in a live game. And frankly, I don't mind just taking it down right there. It's already a nice pot.

[Vitaliy]

If he thinks after the flop that he has 14 outs, he should put you allin on the flop or call your allin. If he is good he might think that in fact he has 8 strong outs and 6 weaker outs that need to be discounted.

Betting 3/4 just telling him that you are allin despite situations when bad card hits.

So either you damage his pot odds by going into coin flip with slight advantage right away, or you decide that you will lure him into this coin flip and you want to have additional control on your potential losses.

Again to me it is a question of pushing the edges. Knowing Lucky Chances crowd I think either bet will be rather called by LAG holding KQ in this situation.

[TienXia]

To begin with im not sure i like the PF raise. Ive played in the game at Casino San Pablo and am pretty sure its similar to the one at Lucky Chances with tons of loose preflop players calling tons of raises with absolute trash. With that being said, there are a couple of things that should be taken into consideration during the play of this hand. First is how the early limpers have been playing and whether or not they are observant enough players to recognize that you have been playing real tight. Next its important to give them hand ranges which you did. Then you have to decide how you want to play this hand and the quality of your cards as well as the size of your stack need to be taken into consideration. AJs is a good hand but i dont know that i really want to raise with it after 4 limpers in a very loose game. If i decide to make a raise my goal would be to take it down PF or at the very least get the hand HU with position. That being said, i would consider raising around 30 or whatever would take the pot down PF. If the pot gets heads up this flop would be much easier to play as there would be about 80 on the flop and you can push your stack in with more confidence. As it was played, you are pretty much commited to this pot IMO. The only way to control the odds would be to push your stack since if you bet the pot on the flop your moneys obviously going in on the turn. The only problem is that i really dont like this move with this board and that many opponents. AJs can play very well in multiway pots, especially with position, and in NL im not very keen on raising with it after many limpers. I would strongly consider limping and taking a flop with this kind of hand and hope to get payed off HUGE when you hit a nut flush.

Nate

PS - Are you in the San Fran area and do you ever play at CSP or other casinos in the area?

[TienXia]

Student-

I didnt read the previous posts before responding but IMO the only move you have is pushing your stack. Sure betting 60 or 80 on the flop would be nice but you dont have the stack to keep on firing on the turn. Also, enough of the players are loose enough to call you without getting proper odds. In this type of game, everyone starts short so you want to give up some expectation by milking your opponents who are on draws and just work on building your stack if its your first buy in. I find its really similar to a MTT tournament and my strategy for this game is very similar. You really have to play an aggressive shortstack and try to double up fast. If you do that then you can control the pot and price opponents out of draws and ALSO have the ability to bust other shortstacks who are trying to find a hand to get all their money in on one hand. Once you double up in this game your on your way to nice scores throughout the night if you stay TAG.

Nate

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If he thinks after the flop that he has 14 outs, he should put you allin on the flop or call your allin. If he is good he might think that in fact he has 8 strong outs and 6 weaker outs that need to be discounted.

Betting 3/4 just telling him that you are allin despite situations when bad card hits.

So either you damage his pot odds by going into coin flip with slight advantage right away, or you decide that you will lure him into this coin flip and you want to have additional control on your potential losses.

Again to me it is a question of pushing the edges. Knowing Lucky Chances crowd I think either bet will be rather called by LAG holding KQ in this situation.

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Of course, if Villain knew that Hero had A-J and Villain had K-Q, it would be correct for Villain to push all-in.

The thing you have to realize is that this is a loose, live game with short stacks, and you have a 4 way pot with a dangerous board. You really don't want 1 caller, and certainly not 2 callers. By betting just $60 on the flop, you're begging for trouble. If you get one caller that will just encourage another over call. Against the 2 callers, Hero is probably under 50% to win because there are so many bad cards that can hit on the turn. Even against one caller, Hero might not be much more than 50% to win. But my point is that Hero doesn't have the kind of stack to be getting cute with this hand. He needs to protect it and at the very least guarentee that he gets it heads up. After all, betting all-in for $110 into an $80 pot isn't even that big. It's a slight overbet, but not by much. But at least it puts maximum pressure on anyone who might think about calling with a draw. K-Q might call anyway, but it puts more pressure on him since he'll now be worring about Hero having any pocket pair 10-10 to A-A.

if i had JT in this place i would check expecting you to bet then ckeck raise you, cause i would probably put you on aces withe that preflop raise, i just cant see how that many limpers can call a 20$ raise.

[Hattifnatt]

I dont know how much to bet to not get give them the proper odds just like this, but I would bet something $75 here.

[Hattifnatt]

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Bet about 3/4 pot, push a safe turn.

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I agree with this. Does anyone limp this PF? With all the limpers to me, I think limp is best...?

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I would certainly raise this preflop, hero has position with the probably best hand, of course it can be some small pairs out there that is the favourite hot & cold but I don't count that.

[derick]

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Bet about 3/4 pot, push a safe turn.

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I have great respect for this poster (PoBoy321)

Which is why I'm very perplexed as to why he doesn't recommend a push on the flop.

Betting 3/4 pot is awful advice.

Betting 3/4 , of an $84 pot with $110 stack has you bettting $63, leaving you with pushing $47 on a safe turn into a $210 (1 caller) or $273 (2 callers) or $336 (3 callers).

If you get reraised all in are you folding TPTK to the LAG?

Please explain why you did not choose push all in on the flop!

I too would bet more preflop. $30 sounds good.

I have no idea why people are considering limping.

You probably have the best hand preflop.

Make them pay.

[rikz]

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I didnt read the previous posts before responding but IMO the only move you have is pushing your stack.

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Given the stack sizes, the number of other players left to act, and the fact that people are calling with second button and straight draws all night, I think you have to push and expect to get called by hands like KJ, or KQ, AT, 89, etc. If you run into a set of 5s or Ts (that limped preflop) or two-pair JT, then oh well, any continuation bet would have committed you to the pot anyway given your stack size and the pot size.

As for raising preflop, I like it if you are in LP. I can't tell what seat you're in from the OP, but since everybody in the hand limped to you, I'll assume you are in HJ, CO or Button. In that case, I like raising AJs preflop. In earlier seat positions, however, I limp.