Wait, but... wha... huh? Hellmuth knowledge.

[otnemem]

Yes, I understand Phil Hellmuth is a world class, world champion tournament poker player. No matter what you think of him personally, he's a damn fine texas hold 'em player. But I was just reading his first WSOP 2004 article on his Web site (or you can find it at cardplayer.com) and he offers this gem after picking up queens.

"(I) open for $1800... Incredibly, the big blind moves all in! This time I feel like my opponent has J-J or worse, but I still fold my hand face up. The big blind shows 7-7. I don't mind this at all. After all, I could have gone out if he hit a seven."

This marks the first time I've ever heard of a professional poker player say that he was happy that he folded a 4:1 favorite, even while sensing that he HAD the favorite, because his opponent could have sucked out a two outer to win.

Wha-wha-wha-what?

[PoBoy321]

Well, I haven't read the article, but I guess his reasoning would be that at that point in the tourney, he didn't want to be getting involved with pre-flop all-ins when he could wait for a flop and evaluate after that. If his standard opening raise was $1800, I'm guess that the blinds were somewhere around 300-600, so it's still in the survival stages rather than the build up chips stage.

[TStoneMBD]

this is one of the things some of the large tournament pros ridicule hellmuth for. hellmuth thinks that he has such an advantage over a player that he is willing to fold a 4:1 advantage, which is simply absurd. i think hellmuth is by far one of the most overrated players on the tour.

[PoBoy321]

I wouldn't say he's overrated. I think that his results speak for themselves. However, laying down a 4:1 advantage before the flop is kind of absurd, although at such a these types of large buy-in events, I guess I could understand his reasoning.

[Doc JS]

[ QUOTE ]
i think hellmuth is by far one of the most overrated players on the tour.

[/ QUOTE ]
He has, what, nine bracelets? GMAFB...you do not win nine bracelets unless you're a helluva player. Now, you may not like Phil, that's your perogative...but don't say he's overrated, not with nine bracelets...


Doc JS

[Paul Phillips]

[ QUOTE ]
i think hellmuth is by far one of the most overrated players on the tour.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe around here. Not by the other players. If some of the worshippers around here heard what various other tournament players thought, there would be some frantic repositioning of the altars.

[DonkeyKong]

This has been discussed before but I don't know why Hellmuth talks about these embarassing laydowns. I would understand him laying down for reasons other than poker -- ie, his outside businesses suffer if he exits the tourney too early. He NEEDS to make a respectable showing. This would be understandable... but then he talks about laying down 4-1 favorites --- it is so absurd.

[drewjustdrew]

I HAVE to think he made the laydown because he put his opponent on a bigger hand. The statement about catching another 7 was just a weak rationalization. If he didn't take chances he would never be near the leaderboard and would probably cash more often than he does. Since he has been on leaderboards and doesn't cash that often, I'm guessing this was just an isolated incident/excuse.

[Beavis68]

it is interesting to see Phil's attitude compared to that of the great cash players like Negreanu, Ivey, and even our own Paul Phillips.

I don't even think that TJ or McEvoy could rationalize this play.

[SossMan]

snore....old news...snore