categorizing your opponents??

i have been thinking about this for awhile.

i find it very hard to characterize my opponents in SNG. do people think there is enough time for that AND/OR are lower level players easy to categorize?

it seems like other than maybe about 2 people out of 10 who are completely crazy and want to go all-in for its own sake (i.e. they are just having fun with the gambling aspect), the rest are pretty unpredictable.

if i start with 1500 chips and the blinds have gone up to 50/100, so i put in a 300 chip raise with KK, i have almost no clue whether they'll all fold or 3 will call (i know it depends moderately on everyone's position)....

i just find the players completely unpredictable and that there isn't enough time to really dissect their patterns.

any thoughts??

YOU MAY WANT TO SKIP THE REST (IT'S BASICALLY A CRY FOR HELP! lol)

just a note (probably what i wanted to say at the start):
probably this is just an extension of a recent tailspin. i was running quite hot for awhile and of course thought it was my great skill. now, i'm getting busted all over the place. i've even been breaking people's bluffs quite well (i.e. reading them nicely) and then they river on me....

i am learning the hard way that cards run hot and cold. and i knew that already, but the more i write it here i can go back and read this when i've somehow forgotten.

[pineapple888]

Online, at least below the $215s, most decisions are not opponent-specific.

I don't think your example with KK is particularly interesting because you're raising either way, whether others come along or not.

When you face a decision that's read-based, you just have to do the best you can. But online players are often random, so don't let it bother you if they do something unexpected.

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
Online, at least below the $215s, most decisions are not opponent-specific.

[/ QUOTE ]

that statement is dumb.

c

[pineapple888]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Online, at least below the $215s, most decisions are not opponent-specific.

[/ QUOTE ]

that statement is dumb.

c

[/ QUOTE ]

WTF? You making a ton of read-based decisions eight-tabling?

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Online, at least below the $215s, most decisions are not opponent-specific.

[/ QUOTE ]

that statement is dumb.

c

[/ QUOTE ]

WTF? You making a ton of read-based decisions eight-tabling?

[/ QUOTE ]

a) yes
b) your original statement had nothing to do with 8 tabling
c) if below the 215s you don't learn to make reads, how do you somehow come up with the ability when you get to the 215s
d) i don't always/often 8 table due to other constraints, not that that matters
e) it is not, nor should it be, the goal of everyone in the universe to play as many tables as they humanly can
f) etc

c

[pineapple888]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Online, at least below the $215s, most decisions are not opponent-specific.

[/ QUOTE ]

that statement is dumb.

c

[/ QUOTE ]

WTF? You making a ton of read-based decisions eight-tabling?

[/ QUOTE ]

a) yes
b) your original statement had nothing to do with 8 tabling
c) if below the 215s you don't learn to make reads, how do you somehow come up with the ability when you get to the 215s
d) i don't always/often 8 table due to other constraints, not that that matters
e) it is not, nor should it be, the goal of everyone in the universe to play as many tables as they humanly can
f) etc

c

[/ QUOTE ]

Come on.

OK, forget 8-tabling.

Early on, you're folding most of the time, making standard raises or limps most of the rest of the time, and making standard plays post-flop most of the time.

Later, it's push-or-fold, based mostly on position, cards, blinds, and stacks.

Yeah, occasionally reads help with marginal decisions. Also, if you get a donk who folds too much heads-up, I guess that counts as a "read".

But otherwise, it's just not all that important.

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
Come on.

OK, forget 8-tabling.

Early on, you're folding most of the time, making standard raises or limps most of the rest of the time, and making standard plays post-flop most of the time.

Later, it's push-or-fold, based mostly on position, cards, blinds, and stacks.

Yeah, occasionally reads help with marginal decisions. Also, if you get a donk who folds too much heads-up, I guess that counts as a "read".

But otherwise, it's just not all that important.

[/ QUOTE ]

well, that's true, i guess. if you hate money. but most of the rest of us, i think, play this game for money.

[pineapple888]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Come on.

OK, forget 8-tabling.

Early on, you're folding most of the time, making standard raises or limps most of the rest of the time, and making standard plays post-flop most of the time.

Later, it's push-or-fold, based mostly on position, cards, blinds, and stacks.

Yeah, occasionally reads help with marginal decisions. Also, if you get a donk who folds too much heads-up, I guess that counts as a "read".

But otherwise, it's just not all that important.

[/ QUOTE ]

well, that's true, i guess. if you hate money. but most of the rest of us, i think, play this game for money.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah, the old "ad hominem" attack, ignoring my arguments.

Nice example to set.

I'm done with this thread.

[pooh74]

Later, it's push-or-fold, based mostly on position, cards, blinds, and stacks.

not to gang up on you, but Ill ignore the rest for a moment.

Even the above involves "reads" and knowing your opponents. Coming over the top of a raise, folding to an EP raise instead of pushing over it, completing the SB or pushing it. These all involve "reads", as in "is he calling with top 40% or top 10%?", "does she raise from EP with a wide range? Her PFR% is 25%, ok, Im coming over the top with 99" etc...

Ill go as far to say that you either don't belive what you said yourself or don't even realize that you don't play that way.

[Phill S]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Come on.

OK, forget 8-tabling.

Early on, you're folding most of the time, making standard raises or limps most of the rest of the time, and making standard plays post-flop most of the time.

Later, it's push-or-fold, based mostly on position, cards, blinds, and stacks.

Yeah, occasionally reads help with marginal decisions. Also, if you get a donk who folds too much heads-up, I guess that counts as a "read".

But otherwise, it's just not all that important.

[/ QUOTE ]

well, that's true, i guess. if you hate money. but most of the rest of us, i think, play this game for money.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont even read this forum for strategy any more, i come here from time to time to see citanul beating up on the retards who think they are miles beyond the newbs without realising they have lots and lots still to learn.