Betting flush draws into a field OOP

Hand 1. I check.

Hand 2. I bet.

[goofball]

in these large multiway pots your flush draw has a decently big equity edge. You make money on every bet that goes in.

[sfer]

Betting is fun. Winning unimproved when someone peels the flop and decides to give up on the turn is fun. Winning with turned middle pair more fun still. Winning with a J-high flush when the turn/river come running hearts and the naked K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] folded to your flop bet is more fun still. Having other players call a similar flop when you hit bottom two and they have a suspicious pair and they remember that you bet 4-flushes OOP is also fun. Same when they decide to punish you and raise TP when you flop a set and they can't figure out how much action to give you so then end up spraying like a donk. So is being hard to read. Something about EV and equity too, but I like the fun stuff.

[RatFink]

I've been thinking about this same thing lately. The value bet is based on having the callers which is why jamming in position with previous callers makes sense as you know how many are in the pot for the round already.

If you bet and get one caller and lose the others then it isn't a value bet. If you get no callers or 3 then it is good.

If you check and it gets checked through, you get a free turn but probably won't get much action if your card hits unless you are behind.

If you check and there is an early position bet, and callers and you can raise then it is a good thing.

If you check and there is a late position bet, you will want to call to keep people in.

I'm not far enough along to express these conditions mathematically to determine EV, but it seems like there are more good things than bad that can come out of checking the draw OOP.

Now I'm off to read Q-tips post where this has all probably already been decided.

[PokerAmateur4]

What's UI mean

[RatFink]

UI = unimproved

[shant]

Great reply Dave.

[nolanfan34]

[ QUOTE ]
Betting is fun. Winning unimproved when someone peels the flop and decides to give up on the turn is fun. Winning with turned middle pair more fun still. Winning with a J-high flush when the turn/river come running hearts and the naked K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] folded to your flop bet is more fun still. Having other players call a similar flop when you hit bottom two and they have a suspicious pair and they remember that you bet 4-flushes OOP is also fun. Same when they decide to punish you and raise TP when you flop a set and they can't figure out how much action to give you so then end up spraying like a donk. So is being hard to read. Something about EV and equity too, but I like the fun stuff.

[/ QUOTE ]

Great post, well said. I think in a lot of small stakes games, especially live, worrying about someone raising your bet and driving out the rest of the field is probably something that's overstated here.

[Jake (The Snake)]

Holy Crap that thread is awesome. Great link Qtip.

I'd bet both of these, I like #2 a bit better though, mainly because diamonds look pretty.

[bobdibble]

I'll bet those flops 100% of the time if we are 3-handed.

If we are 4 handed or more, I only bet them about 50% when 4 handed and about 25% if we have more. This is good enough to make me dificult to read when I later bet a similar flop with top pair or 2 pair. Note that I won't bet this flop when multi-handed if there is a LAG that is going to act in EP.

The reason I don't always bet these 4 handed or more is that I really don't want soemone in EP to raise and knock out the field.

I'm pretty sure Jenifer Harmon advises against betting these flops in SS2 for this very reason.